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  #611 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Perham View Post
they surely are a part of this country, they should have the equal rights with other people. no more, no less. I support them as iranian citizens. I myself would vote some of them like khatami. I find him so admirable. he made our country so powerful in the past, I hope he could d it again in the future.
So tyou support your Religous/Supreme Leader/Ayatollah.

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what's the difference? the country is getting ruined anyway.
No difference but I'm right about the cause.

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we have laws inside sharia that allows the reformation of the sharia laws, so yes, reformed sharia laws are better than old ones.
Really?
You're pretty 'moderate', but still support Sharia Law.
You can't reform what Mohammed laid in Stone.

http://www.Time.com/time/world/artic...185647,00.html

"....Part of the problem dates to Muhammad. Even as he proclaimed new rights for women, he enshrined their inequality in immutable law, passed down as God's commandments and eventually recorded in scripture.

The Koran allots daughters Half the inheritance of sons. It decrees that a woman's testimony in court, at least in financial matters, is worth Half that of a man's.
Under Shari'a, or Muslim law, compensation for the murder of a woman is Half the going rate for men. In many Muslim countries, these directives are incorporated into contemporary law. For a woman to prove rape in Pakistan, for example, 4 male adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the penetration, in accordance with Shari'a.

Family law in Islamic countries generally follows the prescriptions of scripture. This is so even in a country like Egypt, where much of the legal code has been secularized. In Islam, women can have only one spouse, while men are permitted 4.
The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young. Muhammad's favorite wife, A'isha, according to her biographer, was six when they wed, nine when the marriage was consummated.
In Iran the legal age for marriage is 9 for girls, 14 for boys.
The law has occasionally been exploited by pedophiles, who marry poor young girls from the provinces, use and then abandon them. In 2000 the Iranian Parliament voted to raise the minimum age for girls to 14, but this year, a legislative oversight body dominated by traditional clerics vetoed the move. An attempt by conservatives to abolish Yemen's legal minimum age of 15 for girls failed, but local experts say it is rarely enforced anyway. (The onset of puberty is considered an appropriate time for a marriage to be consummated.)

Wives in Islamic societies face great difficulty in suing for divorce, but husbands can be released from their vows virtually on demand, in some places merely by saying "I divorce you" three times...."

Link above

Gonna Re-write the Koran?
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Last edited by i.beletesri; 04-17-2008 at 11:51 AM.
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  #612 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:49 AM
rodrigu3 rodrigu3 is offline
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
So tyou support your Religous/Supreme Leader/Ayatollah.

No difference but I'm right about the cause.

Really?
You're pretty 'moderate', but still support Sharia Law.
You can't reform what Mohammed laid in Stone.

http://www.Time.com/time/world/artic...185647,00.html

"....Part of the problem dates to Muhammad. Even as he proclaimed new rights for women, he enshrined their inequality in immutable law, passed down as God's commandments and eventually recorded in scripture.

The Koran allots daughters Half the inheritance of sons. It decrees that a woman's testimony in court, at least in financial matters, is worth Half that of a man's. Under Shari'a, or Muslim law, compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men. In many Muslim countries, these directives are incorporated into contemporary law. For a woman to prove rape in Pakistan, for example, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the penetration, in accordance with Shari'a.

Family law in Islamic countries generally follows the prescriptions of scripture. This is so even in a country like Egypt, where much of the legal code has been secularized. In Islam, women can have only one spouse, while men are permitted four. The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young. Muhammad's favorite wife, A'isha, according to her biographer, was six when they wed, nine when the marriage was consummated. In Iran the legal age for marriage is nine for girls, 14 for boys. The law has occasionally been exploited by pedophiles, who marry poor young girls from the provinces, use and then abandon them. In 2000 the Iranian Parliament voted to raise the minimum age for girls to 14, but this year, a legislative oversight body dominated by traditional clerics vetoed the move. An attempt by conservatives to abolish Yemen's legal minimum age of 15 for girls failed, but local experts say it is rarely enforced anyway. (The onset of puberty is considered an appropriate time for a marriage to be consummated.)

Wives in Islamic societies face great difficulty in suing for divorce, but husbands can be released from their vows virtually on demand, in some places merely by saying "I divorce you" three times...."

Link above
Shouldn't this go in the questions about Iran thread? This thread is about destroying Islam - stick to the topic ffs.
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  #613 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:50 AM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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I'm sure you'll have them falling on their knees, begging to be Baptized...
The last thing I would want to do is give religious fanatics another religion to "believe in." I am an agnostic.

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An article from 2000 and 2002? Are you serious? Both of those are for defensive purposes.
Sure, they are just the first articles that came up with my first google search, that shows lasers and robots are in development, on the batllefield, and the next wave of warfare. Much of it is of course top secret, and much more is available with more google searching.

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he made our country so powerful in the past, I hope he could d it again in the future.
Not going to happen. Your leadership is guiding you toward more sanctions soon as support in Europe grows for them and great destruction in your country from collateral damage.

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what's the difference? the country is getting ruined anyway.
The difference is that your country isn't going to stop getting ruined until your regime is changed. Much more severe sanctions are about to be passed and military destruction of iran is months, not years away.

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we have laws inside sharia that allows the reformation of the sharia laws, so yes, reformed sharia laws are better than old ones.
When you get around to reforming them all, then I will listen to talk about there being a moderate or peaceful islam.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Last edited by Metrophobe; 04-22-2008 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Thread Continuity
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Old 04-17-2008, 11:55 AM
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ok, it's 12:23 am here, so I'm gonna sleep. guess what? I'm going to kashan tomorrow.
there are some rumors that a large militaristic uranium enrichment site is going to be made there, I'm going to protect it from american jets. (/sarcasm) so, bye for now, nice talking to you!
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  #615 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:57 AM
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i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
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Originally Posted by Perham View Post
ok, it's 12:23 am here, so I'm gonna sleep. guess what? I'm going to kashan tomorrow.
there are some rumors that a large militaristic uranium enrichment site is going to be made there, I'm going to protect it from american jets. (/sarcasm) so, bye for now, nice talking to you!
You see.. somehere he Must run/Cannot answer.
This is the Logic Dichotomy/Quandary that 'moderate' Muslims face.
They MUST defer to the more Pious.

He can't really 'reform the Koran' and can't say so.
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Last edited by i.beletesri; 04-17-2008 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:00 PM
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were not in the middle ages anymore.. i thought we learned about persecution already. but i guess old saying holds true.. if you dont learn from the past, youre doomed to repeat it.

Last edited by beachbum; 04-17-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:03 PM
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Perham seemed to me to be open to communication and understanding instead of accusing and arguing in those last few posts.

I am not anti muslim. I think Islam is wrong not those who follow it. In fact one of the things I pray the most for is forgiveness to those who follow Islam because I see them as lost sheep who try to worship God but are taught the wrong path.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:03 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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The problem with the idea of reforming the quran, besides the usual nonsense that it doesn't need reform, is that reform implies there was something good to start with, something to build upon, some good intentions buried among bad policy. But, this isn't the case here. It was founded by an evil, thieving, torturing, murdering, raping, religious cult fanatic who spent his life conuqering people to extend his power and everything islam is results from that origin. It is true among the many things muhammed said for himself, he mentioned afew things that sort of sound reasonable, but the vast majority is clearly 100% evil.

Reforming islam means disowning muhammed and the quran. Once they do that, they can call themselves whatever they want.
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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:05 PM
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i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
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Originally Posted by beachbum View Post
they shouldnt have to. its theyre religion. let them believe what they want. if they reform it, it should be because they want to not because we want them to.
Duh!
He can indeed believe or not .. but he can't reform the Koran- or what Mohammed said.

Unlike other religions, there is and has been no 'reformation' (and no NKJV of the Koran), unless you call the even more Literal Wahabism THAT movement.

Tiring to see yet another mindless PC liberal chirping in with what he knows not.
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Last edited by i.beletesri; 04-17-2008 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
Duh!
He can indeed believe or not .. but he can't reform the Koran- or what Mohammed said.

Unlike other religions, there is and has been no 'reformation' (and no NKJV of the Koran), unless you call the even more Literal Wahabism THAT movement.

Tiring to see yet another mindless PC liberal chirping in with what he knows not.
the rule goes for us too. we tried reforming them with the inquisition and that was a mistake. i see nothing wrong with the quran just like i see nothing wrong with the bible.
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