Originally Posted by Kazan

Oh I understand perfecetly, none of those passages said anything about an inner struggle. As a matter of fact they were talking about war.

Bukhari:V4B52N196 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say,"None has the right to be worshipped but Allah."'

How can this be an inner struggle? Is Mohammed going to argue with himself until everyone converts to Islam?

Noble Qur'an:2:190 Footnote: "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah's Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite."

Bukhari:V4B52N65 "A man came to the Prophet and asked, 'A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?' The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause.'

Where is the exageration in these passages?

Originally Posted by BigRed

So now you are speaking "matter of factly". How come?

And I don't really care about the passages themselves. The mainstream Islamic message is that of peace. The extremist message of Islam is that of a war. You could play around with the Bible and make it contradict itself all day long. You could play around with the Bible and make it seem like the most atrocious and evil piece of writing ever manifested by man. It's not that difficult, especially if you have an agenda.

Originally Posted by bugalugs

I see. So you cannot demonstrate where in the Koran that it says that genocide is not genocide if it is done in the name of Allah.

You just made that up. Just another statement of ignorant bigoty with no basis in fact.

Originally Posted by Kazan

It is not, there are 2 houses of Islam the house of peace - for muslims
and the house of war - for everyone else.

You may buy the religion of peace propaganda, but I don't.
I have read the quran.

Go ahead and play with the bible the only stipulation is that it has to be the New Testament. As a Christian, Jesus fullfilled the covenant of the old testament

Originally Posted by BigRed

And your interpretation of it, is that of a violent religion.

The mainstream muslim interpretation of it, is that of a peaceful religion.

If it was the former and mainstream muslims viewed it as a violent religion and wanted to wage real war like the extremists, we would be at war with a billion people and we aren't because most of those billion people aren't violent.

Originally Posted by BigRed

And your interpretation of it, is that of a violent religion.

The mainstream muslim interpretation of it, is that of a peaceful religion.

If it was the former and mainstream muslims viewed it as a violent religion and wanted to wage real war like the extremists, we would be at war with a billion people and we aren't because most of those billion people aren't violent.

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha

Islam is a very violent religion if you look at its past, but if you look at its teachings it is not. Islam actually has laws against attacking Jews and Christians. It's called Dhimmi, and it's a tax. The taxes are called Jizyah. They were paid by Ahl-ul-kitab (the people of the book) for protection. And that was 1400 years ago that they created this stuff. They tolerated other religions, that's part of the reason they were so popular, because, at the time, everyone was killing each other over their different religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by Kazan

Not really, they know they cannot defeat the west in a conventional war. This has been proven time and time again just by the fact the Isreal handed their ass's to them on several occasions.

So how do they gain a foothold? Immigration, slowly building their numbers. It's no coincidence that were there are muslims in majority there is a purging of other religions, banning of any other holy book, and if there is a small confingent of non-muslims they are treated as 2nd class at best and get a jizyah slapped on them to make sure they know they are inferior to Islam.

Originally Posted by BigRed

Well you can make excuses or make up reasons as to why the muslims aren't violent yet...but the fact of the matter is they are a peaceful people with a few nutcases. Just. Like. Anything. Else.