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Old 04-01-2008, 03:13 AM
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Slavery



You think that you are free?

By David Preussen 2007

Most people think of slavery as something humans force upon each other, something based on chains, cages and such things. Many are not even aware that there are many different kinds of slavery and that most of them are not based on what humans do to others but our weakness of mind.

Generally spoken, being a slaves means being bound to slavish things, slavish things for example are desire, servitude, or short; anything that restrain us in our freedom. By slavery I make a distinctions into two different kinds of slavery; internal- and external-slavery. Internal-slaves are those that are slaves to their own desires and impulses, those that got enslaved by fellow humans or other external factors not in their control are external-slaves. Internal-slavery arises out of a weakness of mind, external-slavery out of dependence.

Quote:
"Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions. The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you." -- Epictetus, Enchiridion (55-135b.c.)
Sadly, today we are all slaves in one way or another. External-slaves to usury, interest and the plutocratic systems that were forced upon us and internal-slaves to our desires, addictions, wishes and last but not least, instincts. Infact I believe that some races were in their entire history never free, not because others enslaved them but because they never reached the required self-control and awareness level to gain freedom from their desires and low-level instincts. As long as one is driven by factors like hunger, thirst, and other desires he is not free for such a man does not do things out of free will but of want and/or need.


For example, a man does not usually go on a toilet because of his free will, a man goes there because his body commands him to. A man only fallowing the commands of his body and instincts is simply in no way more free than a man fallowing the commands of his master for a servant is a servant no matter whom he serves. It's the same with hunger, thirst, sexual desires, or addictions, someone addicted to hard drugs like heroin for example is no less a slave than an externally-enslaved African was some centuries ago.

Animals therefore are never free for animals are only driven by needs and wants. Being free requires free will and free will requires freedom from needs and wants. Full freedom all of the time is therefore an illusion, a dream, because as long as we are bound to our slavish body we have to do slavish things just to stay alive. Having freedom from desires and wants for most of his time is the best a human can hope for.

Quote:
"Man, in order to think, in order to feel himself free, in order to become man, must be freed from the material cares of daily life." -- Aristotle
Even thought the media and "education" tells as the opposite, I believe in today's world we are more slaves than at any other time in history. We only don't wear visible chains anymore! Not so long ago most people were independent, even most peasants were independent to some degree. They were not rich but independent and self-sufficient. A man was rather poor but independent than a servant! That was before advertising, centralization and consumerism destroyed the social and economical structure of society.

True happiness is something that arises from a certain state of mind or being, not external gods. Trying to fill the emptiness inside with external gods only leads deeper into slavery. Just ask a drug addict!


Today we are all servants, the middle class is dying and all the wealth is centralized in fewer and fewer hands. A "free market" and all those things are mere illusions, no matter what we do we serve the people which control the access to resources and wealth. Instead of cages and chains we got interest, taxes, inflation, desires, wants and needs to keep us down.

And it gets worse, our world rulers are currently replacing those people and races that reached the required level of awareness to gain some freedom from their desires, wants and impulses with those that have not. Eternal-Slavery, external and internal, seems to be what they have in mind for the world.

Quote:
"It is characteristic of a tyrant to dislike every one who has dignity or independence; he wants to be alone in his glory." -- Aristotle, Politics

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Old 04-01-2008, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
[center]Slavery


Even thought the media and "education" tells as the opposite, I believe in today's world we are more slaves than at any other time in history. We only don't wear visible chains anymore! Not so long ago most people were independent, even most peasants were independent to some degree. They were not rich but independent and self-sufficient. A man was rather poor but independent than a servant! That was before advertising, centralization and consumerism destroyed the social and economical structure of society.

True happiness is something that arises from a certain state of mind or being, not external gods. Trying to fill the emptiness inside with external gods only leads deeper into slavery. Just ask a drug addict!


Today we are all servants, the middle class is dying and all the wealth is centralized in fewer and fewer hands. A "free market" and all those things are mere illusions, no matter what we do we serve the people which control the access to resources and wealth. Instead of cages and chains we got interest, taxes, inflation, desires, wants and needs to keep us down.

And it gets worse, our world rulers are currently replacing those people and races that reached the required level of awareness to gain some freedom from their desires, wants and impulses with those that have not. Eternal-Slavery, external and internal, seems to be what they have in mind for the world.




Source
That is true more slaves than any time in history, everybody, but which are these races that have not reached the required level of awareness, just to ask, you personally, did you invenet something, did you discover a new phenomenon of the universe, maybe no, okay did any relative of yours invenet something or discover a new phenomenon of the universe you personally because you are advanced as a race, you are aware of your higher self probably believing in God, I am asking you as an individual what have you contributed to humanity or are you just another drone, you say the white race by implication, but I simply ask if you are more aware than a Bushmen you personally what have you contributed more than that Bushman or you just go to work and carry out mindless tasks.

Don't get me wrong I feel the same way, it just is not a race phenomenon, maybe you should look deeper.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:28 PM
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That is true more slaves than any time in history, everybody, but which are these races that have not reached the required level of awareness, just to ask, you personally, did you invenet something, did you discover a new phenomenon of the universe, maybe no, okay did any relative of yours invenet something or discover a new phenomenon of the universe you personally because you are advanced as a race, you are aware of your higher self probably believing in God, I am asking you as an individual what have you contributed to humanity or are you just another drone, you say the white race by implication, but I simply ask if you are more aware than a Bushmen you personally what have you contributed more than that Bushman or you just go to work and carry out mindless tasks.

Don't get me wrong I feel the same way, it just is not a race phenomenon, maybe you should look deeper.

The find those races who have not reached the required level of awareness yet, you have to search for those which never had an own civilization, never had a free society. The capacity for freedom and the demand for it are directly connected, those with low or no demand for freedom also have either no or only a low capacity for it.

I understand the concept of freedom, in as much as to know that true freedom will be forever remain impossible as long as we stuck at the current level of existence, forever dependent, forever wanting. What sounds so little is sadly something only a tiny minority appears to be capable off. And I'm still young, I'm still learning how to use my capacities. I have not yet contributed anything worth noting but I have the basic capacity for it, the capacity to understand and to use my understanding, and that is what constitutes the difference between me and a Bushman living in a state limited to mere sensual existence.

Personally I have nothing against Bushman, their way of live is much more natural and less destructive than what our society has become, still, claiming that they hold the capacity to understand freedom would simply be untrue. The very reason for their natural way of life after all is that they have not yet developed the capacities which would provide them with superiority over nature and are thus bound to remain in a state of balance with their environment.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:02 PM
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I understand the concept of freedom, in as much as to know that true freedom will be forever remain impossible as long as we stuck at the current level of existence, forever dependent, forever wanting. What sounds so little is sadly something only a tiny minority appears to be capable off. And I'm still young, I'm still learning how to use my capacities. I have not yet contributed anything worth noting but I have the basic capacity for it, the capacity to understand and to use my understanding, and that is what constitutes the difference between me and a Bushman living in a state limited to mere sensual existence.
You got me there, but may I ask something what if i took a Bushmen child brought him up in say a family with say $360 000 per annum, he is third child, I bet you he would get great grades, great degree with encouragement and exposure, and being allowed to be an engineer something he would not even be interested in had he grown up with the his Bushmen kith and kin. Could not the Bushmen like you learn to use his capacities without the culture., Just asking not arguing.
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:02 PM
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No matter how useful these musings are, and I am not saying that you are not without those that have the same thesis as yourself and are famous for their articulation of it, there is no manacle around my leg. Let's not lose track of the real or of the useful. Whatever shackles of hegemony may be on us we can use to our own end. Moreover, freedom is just another construction of liberal ideology which is pervasive in our language. It is both easy and juvenile to say that we are all just slaves merely because our experience of the world at large becomes more and more kafkan. It is not that we are slaves or that we lack freedom, not to say that there aren't those who are or were quantifiably enslaved, but just that we are part of a complex world with obligations, desires needs, threats and responsibilities.
It can be scary, and to retreat to the stance of "we have lost our freedom, we are slaves" is a path that people take regularly, but I see it as only impairing us even further. Let's not forget, in the most immediate sense, what slavery and freedom are and that we can change those things, we can fight slavery and fight for freedom.
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Old 04-03-2008, 12:45 PM
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No matter how useful these musings are, and I am not saying that you are not without those that have the same thesis as yourself and are famous for their articulation of it, there is no manacle around my leg. Let's not lose track of the real or of the useful. Whatever shackles of hegemony may be on us we can use to our own end. Moreover, freedom is just another construction of liberal ideology which is pervasive in our language. It is both easy and juvenile to say that we are all just slaves merely because our experience of the world at large becomes more and more kafkan. It is not that we are slaves or that we lack freedom, not to say that there aren't those who are or were quantifiably enslaved, but just that we are part of a complex world with obligations, desires needs, threats and responsibilities.
It can be scary, and to retreat to the stance of "we have lost our freedom, we are slaves" is a path that people take regularly, but I see it as only impairing us even further. Let's not forget, in the most immediate sense, what slavery and freedom are and that we can change those things, we can fight slavery and fight for freedom.
Pretty good, but are my obligations to surrender my will to others, who try to justify the surrender of my will to theirs by saying they are somehow superior.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:18 PM
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Well, my point isn't that the we are not in constant bondage, I am just saying that to muse upon the ways in which we are "enslaved" without the awareness that we can control of our fates in many ways can be destructive. By all means, we should not submit our wills to those who attempt to exploit us and rob us of our agency. But I feel like the stance of resistance is fundamentally a different one then a lamentation that we are all stuck in a world beyond our control.

And if you want to take this into a very conceptual frame of discussion then we can even challenge your views of desire themselves. Who is to say that our desires are not part of us? The language of psychology has largely inculcated within us a view that our desires and our insanities are not actually a part of us. This originally comes from, credit given to Foucault for this wonderful observation, the origin of insane asylums being catholic institutions called Lazarus houses, where the belief was that insane men and women were made insane by demonic, external forces. This is only one of many of the theses explored in Madness and Civilization, but effectively this has left us with this notion that madness is not something that is part of what we are but is instead something inflicted upon us that could hopefully someday be cured. The same is true of desires; we do not perceive the feeling of hunger to be our own, yet it is just as much part of our body as the stomach from which it originates. Or the desire for sex, is another. Someone can say "I don't want to have sex before marriage, yet I still feel the desire for sex" and can attempt to "remove" or "expunge" this desire, but that doesn't change the fact that that desire is part of us, even if we talk about it as if it was something with which we interact. Going even further, who is to say that desire is even necessarily a negative force that drives us to do things that do not benefit us or that ultimately end up costing us? Deleuze and Guattari propose that the fundamental essence of desire is that of production not just of consumption. The full details of that thesis are beyond my ability to easily recount, but the desired effect of bringing this up can hopefully still be produced; that desire is perceived not necessarily as something that leads us to procure things that we don't "need" to procure, or consume or experience or think things that we don't "need" to or that is not in our "best interest" to. Instead desire is the fundamental essence of all of our action, particularly the essence of creation. We are comprised of our desires just as much as any other part of "us" and those desires are a productive force.
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:16 AM
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Well, my point isn't that the we are not in constant bondage, I am just saying that to muse upon the ways in which we are "enslaved" without the awareness that we can control of our fates in many ways can be destructive. By all means, we should not submit our wills to those who attempt to exploit us and rob us of our agency. But I feel like the stance of resistance is fundamentally a different one then a lamentation that we are all stuck in a world beyond our control.

And if you want to take this into a very conceptual frame of discussion then we can even challenge your views of desire themselves. Who is to say that our desires are not part of us? The language of psychology has largely inculcated within us a view that our desires and our insanities are not actually a part of us. This originally comes from, credit given to Foucault for this wonderful observation, the origin of insane asylums being catholic institutions called Lazarus houses, where the belief was that insane men and women were made insane by demonic, external forces. This is only one of many of the theses explored in Madness and Civilization, but effectively this has left us with this notion that madness is not something that is part of what we are but is instead something inflicted upon us that could hopefully someday be cured. The same is true of desires; we do not perceive the feeling of hunger to be our own, yet it is just as much part of our body as the stomach from which it originates. Or the desire for sex, is another. Someone can say "I don't want to have sex before marriage, yet I still feel the desire for sex" and can attempt to "remove" or "expunge" this desire, but that doesn't change the fact that that desire is part of us, even if we talk about it as if it was something with which we interact. Going even further, who is to say that desire is even necessarily a negative force that drives us to do things that do not benefit us or that ultimately end up costing us? Deleuze and Guattari propose that the fundamental essence of desire is that of production not just of consumption. The full details of that thesis are beyond my ability to easily recount, but the desired effect of bringing this up can hopefully still be produced; that desire is perceived not necessarily as something that leads us to procure things that we don't "need" to procure, or consume or experience or think things that we don't "need" to or that is not in our "best interest" to. Instead desire is the fundamental essence of all of our action, particularly the essence of creation. We are comprised of our desires just as much as any other part of "us" and those desires are a productive force.
Not in constant bondage, well people rise up usually in extremists forms when they are being fooled.

I am not lamenting because I have decided to keep my will, all men who do that pay a heavy price.

I don't know if demons give me desire but to be alife you must desire something, our desires and insanities are part of us. Insanity is a result of not being able to cope, not being able to accept or cope or accept one is aslave, drives them insane because on one hand told they are free on the other told to give up their will.

The feeling of hungeris mine, I assure you if you do not eat you will die.

Desires are good things, I would say positive forces, the desire to consume and produce, are different, those who desire to produce are at a higher plain than those who desire to consume, I would say both desires exist simultaneously in all humans varying in degrees, a thief/ mobster obviously having more desire to consume than produce and a scientist/ industrialist having more desire to produce.

The slavers want to be seen as the producers the contributors of original thought and everyone else just to follow their lead, it is all over the papers, to be seen as the contributor to production one appears as the brains of a society by destroying those they consider to be slaves to merely desires consumption, unfortunately at times people want to produce it is when they react to subdue this threat even though what they consider a threat would just be another human using his/ her talent but does better than those who desire to enslave, then they crush this enemy, but that enemy was not aware they are en enemy.

Yes, desire is the fundamental essence of all our actions we should be allowed to desire, but they only desire to promote the desires of heir ethnic groups.

I am not a psychologist but I hope this answers you.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:54 AM
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Firstly, I have lost track whom I am adressing because I tend to be quoting and responding to Skeptikos' thesis yet Celestial is responding to me. @Skeptikos, Epicurianism is a joke, don't ever bring it up in a modern context. @Celestial, you are sounding like a Marxist. We have a stigma against Marxism, but many marxist philosophers, those from outside of the USSR, often referred to as "western marxists" who never had the reigns of power and often were highly opposed to the actions of the "eastern marxists." These marxists were drawn to marxism by the basic standpoint of "man is exploited by a 'bourgeois' class and they don't even know it. The tools of their exploitation are ingrained primarily in money and language," which is a standpoint that many people, even if they have no love of marxism, are drawn to. Read Antonio Gramsci. I think that of all the marxists he is the least scary, and the most sensible. He proposes very logical and satisfying explanations for how the masses are what we are calling "enslaved," as well as proposes ways to change that. Moreover, his means of change are very different from the typical marxist fallback of "revolution!" Instead, he talks very sensibly about realistic means by which to ease the tension of class struggle. I am usually not the biggest proponent of Gramsci's writings, but you (celestial) are talking in a way me makes the think you would like him quite a bit.
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:16 PM
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Celestial, you are sounding like a Marxist. We have a stigma against Marxism, but many marxist philosophers, those from outside of the USSR, often referred to as "western marxists" who never had the reigns of power and often were highly opposed to the actions of the "eastern marxists." These marxists were drawn to marxism by the basic standpoint of "man is exploited by a 'bourgeois' class and they don't even know it. The tools of their exploitation are ingrained primarily in money and language,"
Marxist, that is why I talk of the market must be as free as possible, what kind of marxism is that. Free market so that we stop being slaves
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