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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Have any of you considered looking at it from Jesus's perspective? He was in a society that basically ruled people. He was a jew and he had no control over his enviorment. If he had tried to rise against, he would have been struck down.
Well... Jesus was struck down if I remember correctly.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:00 AM
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Well... Jesus was struck down if I remember correctly.
I think the idea is he had the ultimate control, even after (and especially after) his death because of the message he brought to the people. He may not have been able to save his own life, but he planted a seed that grew.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:47 AM
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I think the idea is he had the ultimate control, even after (and especially after) his death because of the message he brought to the people. He may not have been able to save his own life, but he planted a seed that grew.
Sacrafice my own life for the good of the people? (*)(*)(*)(*) that.
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I never claimed that 100,000 civilians died by American hands. I merely state the fact that our invasion and occupation has resulted in 100,000 civilian deaths.

This is figure approximates the numbers from Iraq Body Count, the most well documented, and highly regarded, source of civilian Iraq deaths from violence during our war with Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.
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Old 04-15-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Sacrafice my own life for the good of the people? (*)(*)(*)(*) that.
Lol, that's why we don't confuse you for Jesus. And besides, what's the sacrifice of a moral life for a god? When you know of your afterlife, suddenly mortality and life suffering takes on a smaller dimension in comparison.
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:15 PM
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Lol, that's why we don't confuse you for Jesus. And besides, what's the sacrifice of a moral life for a god? When you know of your afterlife, suddenly mortality and life suffering takes on a smaller dimension in comparison.
Did you just call Jesus a cheater?
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Originally Posted by catawba View Post
I never claimed that 100,000 civilians died by American hands. I merely state the fact that our invasion and occupation has resulted in 100,000 civilian deaths.

This is figure approximates the numbers from Iraq Body Count, the most well documented, and highly regarded, source of civilian Iraq deaths from violence during our war with Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.
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Old 04-15-2008, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Did you just call Jesus a cheater?
Lol, I suppose if you call the intentional suffering and love of life the test, then yes, he cheated. But I don't think that would be the test. I think, if anything, life is an intellectual and moral challenge. Jesus, either as a god or as a man deeply attuned to nature, passes this challenge with flying colors with his deep knowledge of reality and humanity.

This is one reason I don't buy the argument that says god does not exist because god would not allow all this suffering on earth. In my opinion, if you truly believe in god and the afterlife, you would have an awareness that suffering is a meaningless, mortal sensation that pales in comparison to the lesson/test we are going through and the eternal life that follows.
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Last edited by JeffLV; 04-15-2008 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:07 PM
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It's not to say that communism cannot be oppressive, in fact, it usually is but fascism is the extreme opposite from communism. There can be totalitarian communism which is what most people think when they think of communism.

As for anarchy, personally, I don't consider that even on the spectrum. For me it falls under the category of no government.
communism = state owned corporation
facism = state owned corporation
To sustain themselves at all, both require complete allegiance of the public.

"Right Wing" as in American standards refers to capitalism.
Capitalism = free market of private corporations
Capitalism is a system that involves less regulations of private entities while socialism/communism is the exact opposite. The most extreme form of capitalism has no regulations. The most extreme form of socialism has very many regulations which leads to oppression and authoritarianism.

Anarchism is just a utopian system without any regulatory methods while Communism is another utopian system in which everything is regulated.

The US was founded on the basis of individual liberties (quite the opposite of fascism). The most extreme form of capitalism is closer to those values than the most extreme form of socialism.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:10 PM
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This is one reason I don't buy the argument that says god does not exist because god would not allow all this suffering on earth. In my opinion, if you truly believe in god and the afterlife, you would have an awareness that suffering is a meaningless, mortal sensation that pales in comparison to the lesson/test we are going through and the eternal life that follows.
ahh but what do you make of the unborn, who's lives range only from a few weeks to a few months. They don't get this same experience. Does God create them only to kill them almost immediately?
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:42 PM
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ahh but what do you make of the unborn, who's lives range only from a few weeks to a few months. They don't get this same experience. Does God create them only to kill them almost immediately?
I believe if there is a god and if life is a test/lesson, the only logical choice god has is for reincarnation of those who have not passed. Not because I believe they are being punished for not passing the test, like some religions say, but just because it takes time and things can go wrong (like your unborn example).

In my opinion, an all powerful, all good god would have a perfect plan which would not necessitate the loss of a single soul. I believe hell is a fictional motivator, and that if there is a god, he has no intention of burning anybody... just making some of us take the scenic route.

I believe the bible, if it is inspired by god, is not inspired because it is the truth... rather, I think it was what we needed to hear. For example, if people believed we would not go to hell and instead would have an infinite number of chances through reincarnation, this would not be very good motivation. Thus, I believe God tells us what he thinks we need to hear, not the truth. I believe God made pork "unclean", not because it is "unclean", but because people back then did not know how to clean it and it was a danger to life. It was what we needed to hear, not the truth, and it is no longer relevant.

If one seeks the truth, one must look past the bible and search for its meaning and purpose. What is it all for? I doubt we are being groomed for mindless and unwavering worshiping for all eternity. If that's all god wanted, why would he give us free will? No, the bible and other books like it are meant to point us in the right direction, but if we are to ascend to the greater purpose planned out for us, I believe we must learn to read between the lines. Any lesser of a purpose for life from god makes no sense to me, and I would not believe in this god

There is more than one way to climb to the top of a mountain.
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Last edited by JeffLV; 04-15-2008 at 09:51 PM.
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