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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 12:12 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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Obviously, the point is that the clintons are for redistributing wealth, as long as it isn't theirs. They obviously care more about their own wealth than the poor since they clearly can not claim, as conservatives do, that income redistribution is immoral or counterproductive.

They are hypocrites and liars, surprise!
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
Why don't you highlight the part that says proceeds will be used for income redistribution?
Why dont you highlight the part that says they can't?
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
No, we have no real control of our government. We live in an oligarchy. To a large extent, the elite that do have control have similar interests to us slaves. But, clearly they have NO interest in ending our slavery though the income tax or mandatory public "school."
The elite, huh. Well I say let's tax the elite then and fight back! It's not like they're exempt from this income tax.

And are you fighting against mandatory public school or free, tax payer funded public school for all? I'm not saying public school can't be used against us by the elite, but if we want to talk about the founders, they most defiantly believed an educated population is necessary for a government open to the people.
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Its been to court, and people have won, meaning they were not held to be legally obligated to file taxes on labor.
I bet they have, but it needs to go to the nations highest court. And to my knowledge, the reigning opinion of the court is that income tax is constitutionally legal. The states have had nearly 100 years to refute the claims that they did not ratify the amendment. They have allowed it to stand. Further, the states have every right to change the constitution again.


The one of the biggest problems with eliminating income tax is it just won't work. If the vast majority of the money is concentrated on the top and tax is required to be apportioned, we can only tax the people so much before the bottom of the population is at 100% taxation rate. this problem becomes more apparent every day as the income difference between the richest and poorest grows. If they try to get the income from some other source, then it will have to come out of the pockets of the rich anyway as the poor will have nothing left. Apportioned tax seems like a far more effective way to beat down the masses then our current income tax.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
Why dont you highlight the part that says they can't?
I don't need to...it doesn't give them the power. End of story. I don't have to show where it says in the 16th amendment that the government can't round up and kill people just to prove that they aren't allowed to do it for constitutional reasons.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
Obviously, the point is that the clintons are for redistributing wealth, as long as it isn't theirs. They obviously care more about their own wealth than the poor since they clearly can not claim, as conservatives do, that income redistribution is immoral or counterproductive.

They are hypocrites and liars, surprise!
She is advocating a policy where everyone at her income level, including herself, will pay more. I didn't hear her advocating a special exemption for the Clintons. It will effect her equally.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rebellion View Post
I don't need to...it doesn't give them the power. End of story. I don't have to show where it says in the 16th amendment that the government can't round up and kill people just to prove that they aren't allowed to do it for constitutional reasons.
It says they can tax without apportionment, and the constitution itself allows them to look after the general welfare of the country. If redistribution of some sort is deemed a provision that allows the congress to look after the general welfare of the country, then there is nothing wrong with it. If you disagree, talk to the supreme court.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:00 PM
eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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I'm not saying public school can't be used against us by the elite, but if we want to talk about the founders, they most defiantly believed an educated population is necessary for a government open to the people.
During the time the Founders lived, you would not have even been accepted in to a school if you didn't know how to read already. They wouldn't have believed you were serious about your education unless you already had learned because they knew it was an incredibly easy thing to learn for 99% of the population. The Founders did not create mandatory public education, forcing people kids away from their parents to be brainwashed by the State under the threat of force. Did you know that since public education was made mandatory in this country that the literacy rate has steadily declined? And, thats not even taking into account that the defnition of literacy is at an all-time low (3rd-4th grade level). Heck, they don't even really bother lying about their intentions anymore, its to make you a good employee, a good wage slave, not educating you, providing the tools you need to be a leader, a business owner.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
It says they can tax without apportionment, and the constitution itself allows them to look after the general welfare of the country. If redistribution of some sort is deemed a provision that allows the congress to look after the general welfare of the country, then there is nothing wrong with it. If you disagree, talk to the supreme court.
And the income tax was instituted to pay for the civil war, not to redistribute income. Which is why it isn't in there. And general welfare is not some catch all that allows government to do whatever it likes. If it were then the consitution would be unnecessary and we could have a one sentence document that allows government to promote general welfare of the country.
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Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:41 PM
CRIMSON MASK CRIMSON MASK is offline
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Income redistribution goes against everything this country stands for.

Who decides who is making too much? And at what point?
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
During the time the Founders lived, you would not have even been accepted in to a school if you didn't know how to read already. They wouldn't have believed you were serious about your education unless you already had learned because they knew it was an incredibly easy thing to learn for 99% of the population. The Founders did not create mandatory public education, forcing people kids away from their parents to be brainwashed by the State under the threat of force. Did you know that since public education was made mandatory in this country that the literacy rate has steadily declined? And, thats not even taking into account that the defnition of literacy is at an all-time low (3rd-4th grade level). Heck, they don't even really bother lying about their intentions anymore, its to make you a good employee, a good wage slave, not educating you, providing the tools you need to be a leader, a business owner.
This, I will agree with you in practice, but not in principle.
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