Published Wednesday | April 9, 2008

Don't pull out troops, Iraq war veterans say

BY JOSEPH MORTON
WORLD-HERALD BUREAU


WASHINGTON — Iraq war veterans from across the country carried a message Tuesday to Capitol Hill — don't pull the troops out until the mission is over.

Among the group was Carl Hartmann, a Marine corporal who has completed three Iraq tours of duty and now serves with a Reserve unit in Omaha.

Hartmann said politicians should not be micromanaging the war but listening to the commanders in the field.

"I'm not going to tell a brain surgeon how he should operate on one of his patients," he said. "I'm going to take his word for it when he tells me that he has to operate this way to make me feel better."

Hartmann and other Nebraskans joined hundreds of members of Vets for Freedom who descended on Capitol Hill as Congress heard testimony from Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker. The two reported uneven but significant progress in Iraq, an assessment that was greeted with skepticism by several Midlands lawmakers.

Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., for example, pressed Crocker during his appearance before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Hagel said, "We're going to continue to see a bloody Iraq," ricocheting from one crisis to another, and questioned the seriousness of the Bush administration's diplomatic efforts.

Crocker pointed to diplomatic meetings at which Iraq's neighbors have discussed issues such as refugees and border security.

"There is activity," Crocker said. "Does there need to be more activity on the part of the region? Clearly, yes."

Crocker and Petraeus also testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, on which Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., serves.

Nelson has proposed requiring Iraq to pay back any money spent by the United States on Iraqi reconstruction. He asked Crocker why the U.S. shouldn't immediately start a tab for repayment.

Said Crocker: "There is very much an interest in moving the financing from us to the Iraqis," and the United States has already largely gotten out of the reconstruction business in Iraq.

When Nelson pointed to specific spending, Crocker said that was for aid programs important to stabilizing the country.

Nelson responded sharply. He said he wants the United States to look at requiring Iraq to repay the U.S. for all sorts of reconstruction services, including the training of Iraqi troops.

Nelson said he continues to support a transition of the U.S. mission in Iraq from providing security to patrolling the border and chasing down terrorists.

Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, said Petraeus and Crocker were serving up more of the same Tuesday.

"The simple truth is that keeping our brave soldiers mired in the Iraqi civil war is breaking our military, bankrupting our Treasury and making our country less safe," Harkin said.

Hartmann and the other veterans urged lawmakers to be patient. They said progress was being made.

Hartmann recalled a January 2006 incident in which his unit was helping to sign up Iraqis for army and police forces. A recruiting station had been established at a factory in Ramadi when a suicide bomber hit the area where the recruits were.

Many were killed or wounded, Hartmann said, but the Iraqis insisted on reopening the recruiting station within a few weeks. When it did reopen, he said, twice as many recruits showed up as before the bombing.

"Al-Qaida wanted to destroy their spirit," he said, "but it had the exact opposite effect, and that in turn inspired us."

Armed with such anecdotes, the veterans worked the halls of Congress all day. They highlighted their positive experiences and progress made by Iraqi security forces.

Hartmann said the American people and Congress need to have patience and trust the military to get the job done in Iraq.

"It's a slow process, but it's working," he said. "This is something you can't rush."

Petraeus and Crocker will testify today before the House Foreign Affairs Committee.Rep. Jeff Fortenberry, R-Neb., a member of that committee, said he was pleased to hear of progress in Iraq.

That's not what your former Security Cheif, General William Odom says.

This was a fascinating interview on our ABC's Lateline last night. Here's the transcript. Enlightening.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/conte...7/s2212616.htm

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people simply dont research their refrences! This guy is far from the expert on Iraq. But I guess that you will take whatever you can get huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Eldridge_Odom

William Eldridge Odom
Born June 23, 1932 (1932-06-23) (age 75)
Allegiance United States of America
Service/branch United States Army
Years of service 1954-1988
Rank Lieutenant General
Commands Director, National Security Agency
Battles/wars Vietnam War
Other work Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute
Adjunct professor, Yale University
Adjunct professor, Georgetown University

Oh, good to see you're up for a mature and adult discussion. Did what the general have to say touch a nerve for you? Or are you only interested in the perspective that matches your particular belief system?

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

I dont refrence 75 year old generals who have been retired for 20 years that havent even seen the sands of Iraq. It isnt even his area of expertese! I love it when people rush to judgement on an issue that they know nothing about! Keep up the good work!

Have you ever seen the movie Black presidents? Remember the scene where the former Recon Marine goes before the Judge? this is kind of the same thing.

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The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

Oh, so all of his experience means nothing at all? It doesn't have to be his specific `area of expertise' for him to have superior military knowledge. For goodness' sake, being in the military, and especially getting to the level he got to, is a life-consuming career. It's not like going to the office 9-5, five days a week.

Show some respect. Did you even read what he had to say? It didn't sound at all to me like he was a doddering old grandfather with his head up his arse who had no idea what he was talking about.

So did you post that article to invite discussion or not? Or did you just want to hear from the people who agree with you? Or were you just soap-boxing?

Ronald Reagan is dead and ended his tenure as President nearly 20 years ago at the age of 78 after starting his career as an actor. By your argument, people shouldn't be putting stock in anything that he did or said, either.

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

HMMMMM. Should I trust the active duty Iraq Vet and Commanding General, General Petraeus or should I go with the opinion of a general that has been retired for over 20 years that has never been to, or physically seen Iraq? Thats a tough one!

Well, clearly you didn't read what I had to say so you've answered both questions.

a) You only want to hear from the people who agree with you
b) You were soapboxing

Thanks for that!

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We've got rules and maps and guns in our backs, but we still can't just behave ourselves. Even if to save our own lives, we are a brutal kind. The Shins

i hear you loud and clear toby ... why would anybody be interested in was someone in there 70's has to offer about current affairs, especially if that person has been out of uniform for a number of years

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Quote:

"I like to watch the news, because I don't like people very much and when you watch the news ... if you ever had an idea that people were really terrible, you could watch the news and know that you're right."

Frank Zappa