I keep hearing people on the fringes of the political spectrum say that moderates and independents are just confused!

In my humble opinion, it is anyone who is not independent who is confused! In order to be strongly for one party or the other, you have to agree on a whole bunch of unrelated issues! How is some ones view on abortion rights related to their view on Iraq? How is their view on gun control, related to their view on the proper economic course for the country to take?

To me the answer is simple, they have nothing to do with each other. I look at every issue separately based on its merits! Why are so many people willing to believe what a party tells them to believe?

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!



Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?



"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." -Thomas Paine

Because people like to fall into groups and put themselves in competition with another group. It makes them feel good about themselves when they win a contest, like the general election.

Personally I"m a moderate republican. That isn't the same as "don't have opinions on the issues" in my case there are simply issues where I go the other way.

I hold a slightly different opinion of "independents" as they seem to be willing to give up their ability to vote in a number of instances to avoid even slightly applying a label to themselves. I find low knowledge of politics often runs high in the crowd.

However I can see where people who follow the party line come from. The issues are different. But often correlated. (For example someone who strongly supports 2nd amendment rights is likely to be more Hawkish. People who want to ban abortion will often want to ban gay marriage. People who don't want to put the environment before business probably support lower taxes etc).

I agree some issues are related, but most arent. Just from your examples, how are your views on gun control related to your views on the environment?

Also, I strongly support the second amendment but am in no way hawkish, but I do see your connection their!

__________________
R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!



Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?



"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." -Thomas Paine

IMO, the Republican party is moderate. I am a conservative.

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Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt

Most conservatives I know believe in black and white, right and wrong and their is no deviation.

My beliefs are simple but I feel I have educated myself.
Abortion is wrong- it kills a baby that is helpless
Iraq - whether you supported it or not, we are in it and must emerge victorious.
Gun Control - The constitution gives Americans the right to bear arms.
Economics - Personal beliefs mostly, but each is responsible for his own life and those he effects (family)

So it may seem simple but for the last several decades conservatives have controlled the Republican party thus I have sided with them. This year it is more difficult.

The second amendment is often misinterpreted as the right to bear arms. The second amendment clearly states that the right to bear arms falls within the context of it being necessary for a well-regulated militia:
There is currently a case being decided in the Supreme Court concerning interpretation of what this context means in modern times, since the last 2nd amendment hearing was held just after the Civil War.

I have a right to bear arms. That right shall not be infringed. I do like the fact that you have strayed from the context of the thread and tried to make this an argument on the 2nd Amendment.

Actually I'd say those would tend to be correlated. Specifically both deal with rights (i.e. the right to chop down some trees and the right to carry).

I'm not saying they have to go together. But I'd be willing to wager that there are few in the NRA that are also full on tree-hugging, bust the minks out of their cages, throw acid at the whalers type people.

I think the republican platform is composed mostly the three "chunks"

1. Showing favor for those making more money (not sure exactly where this kicks in, somewhere between $20,000 and certainly by $120,000 household income. Exact point where republican policies favor you varies by indaviduals. I'd guess around $40,000)

2. Support of morals (vaguelly as defined by tradiotion and/or the Catholic church or other religious set).

3. General willingness to take a hard line stance on something. (War, death penalty etc).

I think every republican plank falls into one or more of those catagories. And the three catagories are correlated. The "moral" set tends towards being more hardline. They also tend to actually go and get a job. Often putting them into the republican earning brackets.

(In case your wondering environmentalism policy would fall into the "money" bin)

Democrats I have a harder time defining catagories for. I think I'd go with.

1. Obviously support for those not making enough money.

2. General bleeding heartedness.

3. Morals and values roughly as held by an atheist urban college student on one of the coasts. (This will change over time)

(I think gun control falls under a blend of 2 (the victims) and 3 (how many atheist urban college students on coasts do you know who are packing heat?)

Again these general catgories are also correlated. #2 directly leads to #1 And #3 will have some tendency to produce the others at the time being.

They are not correlated in any way! Chopping down a tree is not a right!! And the second paragraph illustrates my point! I would agree that most NRA members are probably not big environmentalists, but in a lot of ways they should be! They tend to be outdoors-men, and should want to protect the environment!

I don't own a gun, but I do have my license to own a gun(I don't have much money and buying a gun is not high on my list of things to spend on). I strongly support the 2nd amendment rights of all people. But I also believe that people need to be environmentally conscious!

__________________
R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!



Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?



"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." -Thomas Paine