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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
The ideology behind globalization is that each country becomes interreliant on each other. When that happens, there will be no war. It is world peace.
I don't believe that is what will result from globalization. Mainly what will happen is consolidation of wealth and power by a few, and the loss of our power over representatives. At state levels we have more control over our lives, at federal levels we have less. As we give more power to leaders elsewhere, we lose even more control over accountability.

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The only reason this idea has failed is because of George Bush. He's full of himself. The ideas of true globalization are at least a 100 years off. It will take that long to make it work properly. It CAN be started now, but if you try to do it all at once - like we're trying to do - it fails because it causes so much damange to the economy.

But can you blame them? In our system, anyone can be taken out of their possition at any time. They have no certainty that their ideas will be followed through.
Americans haven't shown themselves to be responsible enough. Ever walk down the aisle at Wal Mart? They're usually pretty crowded. This is why I support some protectionism. Not only does it keep more jobs here, it also gives smaller businesses a seat at the table who don't have the global bargaining power that Wal Mart etc does.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
That's right - capitalism COULD move every single job overseas, and if it did, it wouldn't say anything about capitalism, but it would indite american law and society: policies that obstruct and destroy american success in the global economy: burdening our society with tens of millions of illegal aliens, the disastrous government school system, wasteful government spending and borrowing, "affirmative action", ecofascism.
That's what I'm talking about. We have to practice capitalism responsibly. Whenever we don't the citizens accept socialism as the cure. Refer to how unions got started in the US. Democrats are known as the party for "the little guy" even though their policies produce no legitimate results for them. Republicans could capitalize on *some* protectionist policies....but as of now they are the party that vehemently opposes all protectionism.

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Anybody in the party that shows dissent, is usually labeled a RINO or liberal by talk radio and many of the bloggers.
And anyone is pro-victory in iraq is a "neocon".
Some might say that (usually liberals) but I don't agree with that. I'm not a neocon and I support victory in Iraq. Neocons are basically just more socialist Republicans with a mixture of outspoken religious values IMO.

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Almost all of those democrat politicians of those times would probably be considered Republicans today. Fiscal socialists with hawkish foreign policy.
Whoa! Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, and Johnson republicans?? Somebody fell asleep in american history class!
-.-
I didn't even say that. I said by today's standards they could be Republicans. Have you not noticed the fiscally socialist policies of many Republicans today??
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Last edited by Sickntiredofliblies; 04-15-2008 at 10:44 PM.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2008, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
The best thing that could happen to the Republican party and force it to get back to Conservatism is for McCain to lose this election because Registered Republicans refused to vote for such a liberal candidate.
You know BB if I take a totally un biased stance I would agree with you.

The Republicans have to take note though what happened to my party (the Labour Party) when we offered up for slaughter left of centre candidates, it started the period of darkness, starting with thatcher!

So if you reverse the analogy, in the climate of today, and after 2 terms of Dubya's "conservatism" another rightwing candidate in this election would have sent you to the wilderness for at least 4 terms, with McCain you are in with a shout, if he wins he will only last for one term, it is what he ushers in if that happens that interests me, as a once political strateghist!

I have to say taking an unbiased view of the rep/candidates, the Newt would have in my opinion, if he have stood, and but for your current fear of "baggage" ( I Know he has enough to fill the left luggage department at grand central station) wiped the floor with both sides

I do not care about a candidate's private life, it is his or her brain that counts, not there religion or there lack of it or where there sexual urges lead them to

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Old 04-16-2008, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
You know BB if I take a totally un biased stance I would agree with you.

The Republicans have to take note though what happened to my party (the Labour Party) when we offered up for slaughter left of centre candidates, it started the period of darkness, starting with thatcher!

So if you reverse the analogy, in the climate of today, and after 2 terms of Dubya's "conservatism" another rightwing candidate in this election would have sent you to the wilderness for at least 4 terms, with McCain you are in with a shout, if he wins he will only last for one term, it is what he ushers in if that happens that interests me, as a once political strateghist!
Your analogy is way off the mark. By no stretch of the imagination is Bush in american terms a conservative. The last conservative was Reagan 20 years ago. By contrast, Labour before Blair WAS a socialist anachronism.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Blade View Post
Your analogy is way off the mark. By no stretch of the imagination is Bush in american terms a conservative. The last conservative was Reagan 20 years ago. By contrast, Labour before Blair WAS a socialist anachronism.
... so true!

and McCain is going to be a more forgetful version of the little bush ...
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Old 04-16-2008, 06:13 AM
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From my other thread it sounds like the fundamental core issue for conservatives is ending progressive taxation and generally hanging onto money instead of allowing it to be dispersed to other with less (I.e. local or state programs instead of federal ones for most things).

If you want to gain support for that view, you might do well to find out at what income point someone benifits from those changes. Also you might want to study which regions come out ahead. Or suburbs vs downtowns, vs bad part of town.

Now if it's only the top 10% that come out way ahead under conservative policies, that probably won't help you.

But if you find that benifits kick in at a low income point you could gain a lot of converts with the whole "they're taking your money" thing from the group of people who don't think they make enough money to be a conservative, but maybe do.

If you're pulling welfare/medicare and such that could move the income level needed way down.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
From my other thread it sounds like the fundamental core issue for conservatives is ending progressive taxation and generally hanging onto money instead of allowing it to be dispersed to other with less
That sounds like an entitlement slanted comment.
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generally hanging onto money
When you work for it - what reason would motivate people to happily be FORCED to give it up?
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2008, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
From my other thread it sounds like the fundamental core issue for conservatives is ending progressive taxation and generally hanging onto money instead of allowing it to be dispersed to other with less (I.e. local or state programs instead of federal ones for most things).

If you want to gain support for that view, you might do well to find out at what income point someone benifits from those changes. Also you might want to study which regions come out ahead. Or suburbs vs downtowns, vs bad part of town.

Now if it's only the top 10% that come out way ahead under conservative policies, that probably won't help you.

But if you find that benifits kick in at a low income point you could gain a lot of converts with the whole "they're taking your money" thing from the group of people who don't think they make enough money to be a conservative, but maybe do.

If you're pulling welfare/medicare and such that could move the income level needed way down.
What does this have to do with the topic?
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:59 AM
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I hope Newt runs for president next time!
I wanted to vote for him. Like Condi, he didnt want to run. Newt is Neocon where it matters. He was my 2nd choice after Condi.


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Well, if you don't like a conservative party, why don't you form your own party?
Why would I start another party when everything I want is right here? I'm comfortable.


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The best thing that could happen to the Republican party and force it to get back to Conservatism is for McCain to lose this election because Registered Republicans refused to vote for such a liberal candidate.
But it ain't gonna happen. Neocons own this party now. You can camp out in the backyard if you want though.



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We run their @$$ out of the GOP along with anyone that disagrees...
You havnt done a very good job so far.

McCain may be a little more liberal than I'm comfortable with on some issues. But on foreign policy he is all neocon.
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Old 04-16-2008, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies View Post
I don't believe that is what will result from globalization. Mainly what will happen is consolidation of wealth and power by a few, and the loss of our power over representatives. At state levels we have more control over our lives, at federal levels we have less. As we give more power to leaders elsewhere, we lose even more control over accountability.
Perhaps that will happen. Maybe there will be a 20/80 effect - like we have in America. Is that really so bad?

I'm more concerned with what you said about the representation. I don't know what you're talking about. How will we lose our representation?

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Originally Posted by Sickntiredofliblies View Post
Americans haven't shown themselves to be responsible enough. Ever walk down the aisle at Wal Mart? They're usually pretty crowded. This is why I support some protectionism. Not only does it keep more jobs here, it also gives smaller businesses a seat at the table who don't have the global bargaining power that Wal Mart etc does.
You definetely know why they exist. What I'm saying is that it's not bad that they exist, but Bush has done it over the course of 8 years. I think it will eventually be a good idea to have globalization, but I don't think it will only take 8 years, it will take 100 years. It has to be slow to keep from major corruption of the market - like with walmat.
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