Well lets see - a republican view will have an R, a democrat view a D, and in between an M:

you want to ban immigration (R)
want to get rid of affirmative action (R)
I assume you think federal social security is stupid (R)
don't care on abortion (M)
think Iraq was necessary (R)
no gun control (R)
don't care on homosexuals (M)
big on state's rights (R)
want low taxes (R)

You, my friend, are not a moderate - you're very conservative, except on abortion and gay rights.

Why are you so compelled to prove me wrong? It's like there's some sort of obsession with me...

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So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.

Alright I'm getting the feeling that people who call themselves "real conservatives" aren't really a unified group. It's just what a number of different flavors like to call themselves sometimes.

So. Annoyingly. Nearly any candidate you pick will have "real conservatives" clamboring about it.

But the sorts of people who are unhappy about him here, judging by responses, take issue with the fact that he's for lower taxes but not going straight for a fairtax structure instead of progressive taxation.

Well and they disagree on social security but he's about as private as you can get with it before an election without committing political suicide by losing the old people vote.

come on - you'll have to get bigger bait than that

I would say that their are three different types of conservatives,
social conservatives who are against gay marriage etc...
Fiscal conservatives that are for lower taxes less government regulation
Foreign policy conservatives who believe that America needs to take a stand and be the leader in the world.

Very few people who consider themselves conservatives believe in all of these things. We merely pick and choose what we think are most important. It is in my opinion that some one can be a real conservative and not believe every single thing

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There were no "real" conservative candidates, the only one close was Ron Paul. They all tried to compare themselves to Ronald Reagan, but they were all nonsense. The only person up there that voted to nominate Reagan originally was Ron Paul. Even Paul is against gay marriage and abortion, which are both free choices which do no harm to anyone else (sans abortion, another issue).

The question you're asking is impossible to answer, as the terms and their parties have become so muddled that no one knows what to call whom anymore.

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.

There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts.

Well if McCain isn't one. Does that mean some are more important than others. Apperantly Social conservatism is the first to go. And McCain is conservative in the foreign policy sense, but Ron Paul, hailed by some conservatives here, does not.

So it would seem that being fiscally conservative is the most important issue and the rest are optional?

Well it seems you know what to call who by your definition of "real" conservative.

Do you guys have a name or something? Like paleolibertarian conservative or somesuch?

Anyway I take it that what it all comes down to is that that conservatives want to see, somehow, an end to progressive taxation and all forms of the government giving people money just because they're poor/unemployed/sick/old etc.

Is not proposing big slices there where McCain falls short of this forums version of "real" conservatives?

Who do you think speaks for you: Rush? Coulter?
Dr. Ron Paul

Which presidents do you consider "real" conservatives? Just Reagan? Does he even make the cut.
Teddy Roosevelt
Ike
Goldwater ... oops, didn't make the cut ... but should have
Next I'm wondering about what you're ideal position on a number of the issues would be. But more importantly what is the most moderate postion that would make you "happy". I.e. you certainly favor cutting taxes. Maybe you would ideally want the only tax to be a sales tax on condoms, rap music, and newspapers. Ok. But how much of just a "regular" Bush type tax cut would keep you "happy" with a candidate.

Anyway, Issues.

Immigration
open borders. fences don't work ... look at the great wall. immigrants do work - but only if they arrived legally. if not, deported. without documentation no medical assistance except life saving efforts, no education for kids, no welfare, no drivers license, no food stamps, nada. employers found employing illegals get huge fines, increased, doubled each instance. and to facilitate finding those illegals, whoever turns in an employer who employs an illegal gets a bounty equal to the fine the employer pays. that NASCAR noise you hear is the convoy of illegals returning home where they can actually eat
Affiramtive action
amend, not end, affirmative action. quit trying to correct racial inequity by applying racial preferences. duh! make affirmative action an economic opportunity which does not factor race into the criteria for being eligible, only assets and income. in addition to making federal contracts available for the qualified affirmative action qualifying entities, provide base subsistance government jobs, with training if necessary. once the participants have the necessary skills, including life skills, they will leave the program for higher wages. those that can't won't.
Welfare etc
anyone who cannot take care of themself qualifies for welfare. we help the least amonst us. those who are able but too lazy, see affirmative action program above ... can't show up for work, then starve. we will make your children wards of the government instead of paying you welfare to "raise" them to become another generation looking for a hand out
Social Security
end the cap on social security deductions - now $102,000. why should the highest renumerated employees quit paying 15.3% (self and employer combined) of everything above $102,000 into the social security program? that athelete making $10 million a year now pays (with employer) $1,514,394 which would not be contributed this year
Abortion
on demand
Iraq
do the one thing that shows the middle east we mean business. insist that israel return to its original borders. let the arbas know they need to self police as we will continue to equip israel to the teeth to defend itself as we agreed to do so if it would withdraw to its original borders
welcome iran to develop a nuke - better yet, give them as many of our sapres so that they have the same number as israel - so that there is parity with israel ... mutually assured destruction in case the israelis want to take advantage of their present advantage before one is built
ask the iraqi government what they want from the USA. make them publicly express what it is they want. if it is to quit the "occupation" then we leave. if it is to stay, we dictate terms ... but letting them know these benchmarks don't get to slip like those attached to the surge.
train their military. assist their police. give them necessary self defense weapons. incrementally move our troops out of the populated areas and allow the iraqis to defend their own country and determine their own fate ... and have them spend their own money for infrastructure improvements. what we loan them can be repaid from future oil earnings once stabilized. declare victory and get the hell out
Foreign policy in general
maintain foreign bases only where they directly advance America's self defense
help in times of unforseeable disaster
cooperate as a contributor to the UN and allow it to be the world's policeman for a change
deftly monitor and parry with china, the next superpower, because it will dwarf our nation's economic and militarycapability within two generations
Gun control
you can have any weapon you want, you just can't buy any bullets. j/k (almost). if you are the military or law enforcement personnel whatever. that will provide self defense, as we will know that those with handguns who are not law enforcement will be punished severly if found possessing a handgun. get the handguns and/or the rogues off the streets. then the rest of us can be comfortable having only a rifle (no automatic weapon) for self protection.
The homosexers
whatever blows their skirt up. no social security based on marriage or civil union as they do not meet the standard for procreating a family, but their loved ones should be able to act as a spouse in a hospital, for example
end don't ask don't tell, cause it doesn't matter ... we need soldiers
Just how small a government?
if there is no legitimate purpose for the activity to exist, then government should not be involved in it
eliminate ALL political appointees to federal agencies EXCEPT for the head of the agency to communicate the president's agenda. the remaining staff will be careerists
if a job is announced it must be inherently governmental ... because it is something that cannot be contracted out. otherwise contract it out
Just how few taxes?
transition a brief period from currency to digital money. thereafter cash is toilet paper. cash makes it possible to avoid taxes on transactions. well, we want to tax transactions. using Milton Freidman's suggestion, 11% of all transactions. NO exemptions, no exceptions. you sell something, you pay 11%. you earn a paycheck you pay 11%. own a house and deduct interest - deduction gone. personal deductions - gone. business no longer taxed differently than individuals - since businesses are individual entities under the law - they now pay tax only on what is left after all expenses have been incurred (as an individual that would be like being taxed on what you have left in the bank after all of your family's bills have been paid - sweet deal the businesses now have, eh?). so, there would be initial shock at the change and upheaval of valuation but thereafter a very transparent system, with all transactions being thru government's electronic debit card system so it takes its tax during each cash free transaction.

And I guess any other issue particularily near to your hearts.
part 2 next post (character limitation)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushfan http://www.politicalforum.com/images...s/viewpost.gif Pelosi calls Mr. Bush a Failure in Eeverything. You just can't hide a public eduation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusticus Rove is s the slime on which this whole administration slid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha And spending money is nothing more than another form of voting.

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And I guess any other issue particularily near to your hearts.

energy
throw money at it ... but not to the oil industry and the car companies, but to qualifying entities. the model is the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) grants that fund ideas that can ultimately develop into commercially viable goods and services. it is incremental as the entity who submits a proposal having merit gets enough money to go to phase two and show the results. if at that stage there is still promise, throw some more money at it. by then, if it is commercially viable, it will find financial backing and its market
take another look at the abandoned L5 project to beam microwave energy to earth from space. the potential exists for earth to receive almost limitless nearly free energy
just as JFK energized the country by committing to landing on the moon before the end of the decade, we need energy independence to be a national cause. it worked for brazil
education
break the mold. 30% of our kids drop out - during the information age. most of those kids need life skills as well as trade skills. few of them are college bound. without society's help many of them are prison bound, and that is more expensive than any assistance program we could offer.
what has been a surprise to me is that there is no tracking system to identify those who drop out. that cohort is very likely the most at risk element in our society who can still be reached in their early years. maybe we should explore this group and find out what they actually need to succeed that is not now available
wish i had more answers here, but it is obvious that what we are now doing is not working in too many cases. common sense says to stop doing what doesn't work. let's make that another national priority
victimless crimes
if you are harming no one by your actions, then it is no crime. however if you commit a crime while doing what is now a victimless crime, drugs, prosititution, tearing labels off of matresses, then expect to be punished severely for the actual crime committed. especially so if you harm a minor, providing drugs, alcohol, sex
the implications are profound. besides allowing to go free those now in prison who are incarcerated for harming no one other than themselves, it will save huge amounts of money in court, law enforcement and imprisonment expenses. it will also free up those resources to go after and secure real criminals who inflict true harm
healthcare
single payer system, eliminate the insurance companies from it
allow drugs from anywhere where that drug has been found to have been accepted by fda or its counterpart internationally
we don't have enough doctors, especially for an aging baby boomer population. there is an artificial cap on the number of doctors because we have so few medical school seats. there are LOTS of students who have the desire and ability to make it thru med school. only they cannot afford it, or they could not get one of the few seats available (a disproportionate number of spots go to the kids of doctors). our military academies turn out excellent citizens who contribute much to our country; service for a great education. we should have medical academies ... dental, general practice, OBGYN, geriatric, psych, surgical, etc. the graduates would available to be assigned to the rural communities that tend to have few medical practioners, while serving their public service commitment.
with more physicans in the system, the burden per doctor would be substantially reduced.
voting
you get to either vote for a candidate or vote against one. the purpose of this is to end the appearance of "mandates" where they don't exist.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushfan http://www.politicalforum.com/images...s/viewpost.gif Pelosi calls Mr. Bush a Failure in Eeverything. You just can't hide a public eduation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusticus Rove is s the slime on which this whole administration slid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha And spending money is nothing more than another form of voting.

You may get quite a few completely different people all claiming to be the "real" conservative. I see that it's already an interesting thread.

I enjoy being entertained by Rush and sometimes Ann, but no one speaks for me.

No one holds a candle to Reagan, IMO.

In most cases, there is only one position that would make me happy. I may take what I can get, but I won't be happy about it.

The laws need to be enforced. According to the Constitution, the federal govt is in charge of regulating immigration, yet they don't enforce the laws. You see a city attempt to make laws which enforce the federal laws and they are cut down. Yet, a city can call themselves a sanctuary city and nothing happens.
Discrimination solely on the basis of race, sex etc. is ALWAYS wrong.
It is not in the purview of the federal govt to be involved in welfare. States should be completely in control of it. Welfare should not be available to illegal immigrants and no one should be on it for an extended period of time.
Not the business of the federal govt.
Not the business of the federal govt. I am personally against abortion, but not for religious reasons.
I think Saddam should have been taken out the first time he violated UN resolutions. IMO, that WAS his second chance.
We should support democracies only.
Law abiding citizens should not have gun rights restricted. I would allow for a background check but no other restrictions.
You mean same-sex marriage? Let the states decide. I would vote against it because of my religious views.
I go with the Constitution on that. Do away with about 90% of the federal govt.
Enough to run the military and a few other federal responsibilities. The rest should be up to the states where people have a great deal more say in how their money is spent.

I guess you get the idea that I am a state's rights conservative. Education should be a state/local issue ONLY. Ditto, drugs. I may be more of a true libertarian because I believe people should have the right choose whether or not drugs are illegal where they live - much the same way some cities/ counties choose to be "dry" now.

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Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive. - Theodore Roosevelt