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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
...
It's the definition of "incapacitated" that is problematic... or at least the loopholes involved in that definition.
Yes, and the UK Government are recently reported to be seeking to tighten up on those definitions.

But as for the 'dependency trap' created by the State Welfare system and exposed by the number of jobs taken by migrant workers - the UK Governement appears to remain unmoved and the UK tax payer must shoulder the burden of too much State funded benifits rather than job creation by supply side economics.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BuckNaked View Post


They are given the choice, they are in control! That’s the problem!
Yes this is the problem.

Many poor may not have a big screen T.V., but many do spend beyond there means. Top of the line shoes, clothes, etc..... If your poor then go to walmart and shop. I had to do this for many years. Also people with less money eat a crap load of fast food. That may seam like a cheap way to eat to some, but cooking meals at home does cost less. America is probably the only country that you can be poor and still be fat. Also you never here on the news a story about how someone starved to death.
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
doubt anyone not on the dole would agree that a system which rewards sloth is desirable; however, what i find more immoral is condemning a system that proves a meager subsistence for those children who, through no fault of their own, are unable to provide for themselves




*corrected

It is not the children that are expected to provide for themselves - it is their parents that are expected to provide for their children.

Unless you are advocating the immoral practice of child labor?

Also I'd point out there are many 1000's of Poles working here in the UK, that have children of their own to support. Maybe British unemployed consider themseves better than our EU neighbours unemployed?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
This is the closest thing to an answer that anyone has given so far, and I think it was posted by mistake.
You asked several question.
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Now for the second part: If it is hard to find a job, wouldn't it be more logical to give money to businesses (cut taxes) in order to create new jobs? But instead we give out checks and free healthcare? Am I on to something?
No, I don't think you are on to anything. As I said, taxpayers already often give new large businesses money in the form of tax breaks and infrastructure development. But if an existing business doesn't have customers, you cannot "create" jobs by giving that business money. A careless or incompetent employee can COST a business money. As you must know, every employee comes with various expenses ( soc. sec., unemployment and workman's comp)

Finding jobs for people to sweep floors is not going to solve the main government expenditure: medical expenses. Those sorts of jobs don't come with medical benefits.

Finding low wage full-time jobs for poor single Moms is not the best thing for their babies and TANF is limited to a couple of years, anyway.

Is there anyone in this country other than single mothers collecting TANF? Why does everyone continue to call it welfare? Are you really referring to Medicaide? Because if you are, than that is a whole different ball of wax.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:47 AM
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If you're on welfare and unemployed looking for work you are counted.
First off I didn’t say unemployed looking for a work? I said people who haven’t worked for a while (more than a few months), and that doesn’t mean they are looking for work, or even consider themselves "available" for work!

So, uh, no they are not!

http://www.bls.gov/

Read this page!

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm


People on welfare only, or people who haven’t worked in a while are considered unemployable and not included part of the employed or unemployed. In fact they are not considered part of the labor force! They just simply are not included.

University students who work are counted but students who don’t work (close to 80% not on the labor force) are not counted!

If you work three jobs that counts as three people working, because a person can only be counted once. How many people do you know who have more than one job?

If you have run out your unemployment and are still looking for a job you could in some cases be considered employed. The numbers are misleading at times, and can be used to create a false conclusion when read wrong.

There is also some questionable numbers as to the way they do the phone surveys. They will call so many of the large corporations and ask if they have hired and/or eliminated positions in the past 30-90 days. A company can say yes we just hired 2000 new employees last month, but they do not have to say they hired them in Taiwan!

Seasonal workers for farming and holiday, are added according to a seasonal statistic. So a guy takes a part time job for the holidays and is considered employed for someone else, or an illegal takes a job and a legal American is given credit for having a job, since American citizens over the age of 16 are the only ones counted.

If you are a kid who works at a family business, like a farm/ranch/dairy, etc…, for no pay, you are considered employed.

In fact it is a wonder we haven’t reached negative unemployment by now, with the amount of unemployed not included in the equation..

Anyway we will get a much clearer number in 2010 when the census, is done again. But I doubt the government will be candid about the numbers, and they will be adjusted to make whomever is in office at the time look good!
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lunecat View Post
It is not the children that are expected to provide for themselves - it is their parents that are expected to provide for their children.

Unless you are advocating the immoral practice of child labor?

Also I'd point out there are many 1000's of Poles working here in the UK, that have children of their own to support. Maybe British unemployed consider themseves better than our EU neighbours unemployed?
excessive credit was given assuming you would not miss the point. by depriving the parent(s) of a subsistence we also victimize the child by withholding assistance. it is that disregard for the childrens' welfare which i find immoral. apparently we differ
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Well, that settles it ... who cares about facts?
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
As I said, taxpayers already often give new large businesses money in the form of tax breaks and infrastructure development.
Taxpayers can't give tax breaks, not even the President can do this, the sole responsibility for this falls on congress.

Quote:
But if an existing business doesn't have customers, you cannot "create" jobs by giving that business money.
No but cutting their taxes will allows said business man to operate at lower costs, perhaps even freeing up enough extra cash to hire a new employee. If the business isn't one that is making any money, then the free market will work out the kinks and he'll either go out of business or change the product.

Quote:
A careless or incompetent employee can COST a business money. As you must know, every employee comes with various expenses ( soc. sec., unemployment and workman's comp)
Again...if it wasn't for the tax aspect and other imposed government regulations then hiring a new employee wouldn't cost any more than it does to print out his application.

Quote:
Finding jobs for people to sweep floors is not going to solve the main government expenditure: medical expenses. Those sorts of jobs don't come with medical benefits.
Last time i checked the constitution it did not grant anyone a RIGHT to health care, it is and should be something that we provide for ourselves, and it is no one else's responsibility but your own. Although i understand the predicament we have here.... responsibility isn't something libs believe in.

Quote:
Finding low wage full-time jobs for poor single Moms is not the best thing for their babies and TANF is limited to a couple of years, anyway.
Mother's who've been left to raise children on their own, deserve assistance, but only have they've tracked down the worthless sob that isn't paying child support and taken every dime he has.

Quote:
Is there anyone in this country other than single mothers collecting TANF? Why does everyone continue to call it welfare? Are you really referring to Medicaide? Because if you are, than that is a whole different ball of wax.
Yes people other than single mothers collects this and secondly, the new way of distributing welfare is to send tax refunds to people that actually paid no taxes at all. New strategy same idea, the redistribution of wealth.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:56 AM
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taxpayers already often give new large businesses money in the form of tax breaks and infrastructure development
Yep and now they use that money to start companies in 3rd world nations. They are using tax dollars to set themselves up in business, take advantage of slave labor, and they are doing it with money that is available to them under the pretence of creating work here! That should be fraud!

Stop rewarding companies for sending jobs overseas (no tax breaks period), and levy import taxes on them as the foreign businesses they are, and that crap will stop!
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by votetheoneyouhatetheleast View Post
There must be a way to make fuel out of poor people.
There is, its called War!
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
I guess it's a matter of supply and demand. Waiting tables doesn't take much skill and if a person can't find a better paying job, at least he can be a waiter. It seems to me that if the economy is so bad, these people would be thankful for the job they have.
The fragrant Mrs B L Z is upset with you, as she was a Maitre D on Celebrity cruise lines, and your comments about waiting on tables caused her to say "Sve je sranje osim pishanje ai pishanje uzvetar je saranje!"

She likes you really
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