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Old 04-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Ilithiad Ilithiad is offline
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Based upon the definitions on wikipedia I would have to say I am a cultural liberal as explained here

Cultural liberalism focuses on the rights of individuals pertaining to conscience and lifestyle, including such issues as sexual freedom, religious freedom, cognitive freedom, and protection from government intrusion into private life. John Stuart Mill aptly expressed cultural liberalism in his essay "On Liberty," when he wrote,
“ The sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. ”

Cultural liberalism generally opposes government regulation of literature, art, academics, gambling, sex, prostitution, abortion, birth control, terminal illness, alcohol, and cannabis and other controlled substances. Most liberals oppose some or all government intervention in these areas. The Netherlands, in this respect, may be the most liberal country in the world today.
I take all this back I am a social democrat.
Views of social democrats today
In general, contemporary social democrats support[citation needed]:

A mixed economy consisting mainly of private enterprise, but with government owned or subsidized programs of education, healthcare, child care and related services for all citizens.
Government bodies that regulate private enterprise in the interests of workers, consumers and fair competition.
Advocacy of fair trade over free trade.
An extensive system of social security (although usually not to the extent advocated by democratic socialists or other socialist groups), with the stated goal of counteracting the effects of poverty and insuring the citizens against loss of income following illness, unemployment or retirement.
Moderate to high levels of taxation (through a value-added and/or progressive taxation system) to fund government expenditure.
Social democrats also tend to support:

Environmental protection laws (although not always to the extent advocated by Greens), such as combating global warming and increasing alternative energy funding.
Support for (legal)immigration and multiculturalism.
A secular and progressive social policy, although this varies markedly in degree. Most social democrats now support gay marriage and abortion rights(I find this abhorrent so I am prolife however I do not agree that it is an issue to be decided by constitutional law which says nothing on abortion rights. This is between a woman, her dr. and God if she believes in one.).
A foreign policy supporting the promotion of democracy, the protection of human rights and where possible, effective multilateralism.
As well as human rights, social democrats also support social rights, civil rights and civil liberties.

If this makes me a liberal then so be it. Down with conservatives! They have wrecked this country. National debt out of control. Deficit out of control. Corporational greed out of control. Make them leave america and form their own religious right totalitarianism somewhere else.

Last edited by Ilithiad; 04-25-2008 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:53 PM
Koga Koga is offline
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I refuse to take on labels, considering people from all over the compass have condemend me.


I figure I believe and act according to those beliefs, and screw what other people think.


Sometimes I'm liberal, sometimes I'm conservative. But I always do it cause I think it's the right thing to do. I don't settle for the lesser or nesscary evil.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:26 PM
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Both liberals and conservatives, in terms of our politicians, have sold out America and especially the middle class to multinational corporate and other special interests.
Why do you think so? And if what you think is true, what do you think should be done about it?
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They are corrupt, feed at the trough of bribes, and are unresponsive to the American people's needs. This is why liberal and conservative are unreliable terms in American politics, because that ideology is only one portion of what dictates their decisions.
See above.
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The reality is we need a much smaller federal government which is much less invasive of our citizens privacy and less expensive that at the same time protects our borders and security through an incredibly powerful national defense.
The reality is that you need to build up a goverment administration you feel you can rely on.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:35 PM
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eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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Why do you think so?
A thousand reasons, like spending massive amounts of money to get a job that makes less than they do in their "normal" job, the enormous access of the lobbyists, the enormous expense of running a campaign, the need for funding to meet that requirement, the fact that they are all very wealthy people and no one but wealthy people can run for office, etc, etc.

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And if what you think is true, what do you think should be done about it?
A line item veto and term limits on all federal office would be a good start.

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The reality is that you need to build up a goverment administration you feel you can rely on.
For national defense, including securing the borders and maintaining peace and order, yes we do. But, the whole problem with our politicians is the fact that they control massive amounts of money they didn't earn and naturally seek to absorb and siphon as much of it off as they can. Government in the form of massive taxes is the problem. If they had a lot less money, they could do a lot less damage.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
A thousand reasons, like spending massive amounts of money to get a job that makes less than they do in their "normal" job, the enormous access of the lobbyists, the enormous expense of running a campaign, the need for funding to meet that requirement, the fact that they are all very wealthy people and no one but wealthy people can run for office, etc, etc.
Please look at the question again.
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A line item veto and term limits on all federal office would be a good start.
Once again, why do you think the US is in the situation you describe.
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For national defense, including securing the borders and maintaining peace and order, yes we do. But, the whole problem with our politicians is the fact that they control massive amounts of money they didn't earn and naturally seek to absorb and siphon as much of it off as they can. Government in the form of massive taxes is the problem. If they had a lot less money, they could do a lot less damage.
No, that is not the problem. This is the prerogative of elected politicians.

The problem is that the US is handicapped and can only elect politicians from exactly 2 parties.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:47 PM
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eleanoraquitaine eleanoraquitaine is offline
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The problem is that the US is handicapped and can only elect politicians from exactly 2 parties.
That simply isn't true. We have tons of political parties and they are free to run for elections. The fact is there isn't all that much difference of opinion among Americans though the differences are very spirited and entrenched. They seem bigger than they really are. Therefore, there is little difference between the political parties.
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Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
That simply isn't true. We have tons of political parties and they are free to run for elections. The fact is there isn't all that much difference of opinion among Americans though the differences are very spirited and entrenched. They seem bigger than they really are. Therefore, there is little difference between the political parties.
I suppose I should have said two "viable" parties. The fact remains. The US is just barely democratic. And the populace somehow accept this.

Last edited by DanishDynamite; 04-25-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:14 PM
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Could you explain what is meant by a "liberal" according to American politics? It is very odd, as in Europe a Liberal is always to the right.
It's nothing more than a slur used on the left. Especially on politicalforum.com.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:18 PM
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It's nothing more than a slur used on the left. Especially on politicalforum.com.
Got it. Thanks.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:30 PM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
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Part of the confusion, especially these days, has to do with disagreements over the very basics of what constitutes Freedom/Liberty.


For example take the idea of public schooling.

To a Libertarian public schooling is a vile thing. Simply Evil. The government is robbing them of their money. Their freedom is being directly restricted because they are not free to do with their money as they wish. Such as buying indentured servants.

To a Progressive the idea of denying a subset of the population any access to schooling would be an example of oppression and a limiting of their freedoms and Liberty. Certainly if these uneducated masses were bought as indentured servants they would consider that clearly as a case of restriction of freedom.

There are other ways to look at the issue as well. For example reducing the amount of people with an education means less competition in the educated workforce, and a smaller educated workforce at any rate. This likely weakens the nation as a whole, and may reduce the affluence of everyone.


As for the political parties they are more "democratic" than they seem because they shift and bend with the times. In other countries Neocons, "real conservatives", paleoconservatives, and a couple other groups might be separate entities. Instead they, along with Libertarians at the presidential level, fight it out within the Republican party. If one group, or any single issue, swings with the majority of different subgroups that's how the Republican party as a whole will realign itself.

Same with the Democrats.

In this way, over time, the parties have evolved greatly.

This is why third parties have such a hard time. If people who supported green party stances made up a majority the Democratic party would simply shift to match their political desires.

Similarily if Libertarians held a majority the Republican party would shift to them.

Therefore any splinter third party is going to be a minority and will generally only be good for spoiling the presidential election. Though they can hold other offices well enough.
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