I thought this point/counterpoint would illustrate the aggravation conservatives sometimes have when debating liberals

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34192

That little blond liberal is just obnoxious.

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Could you explain what is meant by a "liberal" according to American politics? It is very odd, as in Europe a Liberal is always to the right.

Liberals in the US are consider leftist.

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In American political terms, unfortunately, it means a PC fascist. They are very far to the right. Nothing can be tolerated in conflict with PC, nothing is evil except rules and ethics, nothing is worth fighting for even the freedom to enforce their vision of enforced freedom and peace. They want as big a government as they can get with as much power they can give it. They want as high as taxes as they can get and are willing to get nothing for it back. They are eager slaves and like Europe if it were all that stood between the islamomanicas and us, America as the land of the free would be over.

Liberals used to be people who fought for the right of the oppressed, for democracy, for civil and human rights like freedom of speech and equal treatment under the law. Basically, they have lost their ideological focus and are soft and easily misdirected.

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

How odd. "Liberal" afterall means "Free". In the US this is apparently no longer the case.

I'm confused now.
Republicans always seem to increase the size of government even if they profess a different view. Are Republicans liberal?
Not understood. Could you clarify?

I consider myself a Liberal in the sense of the traditional definition of the term.

(From Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

"Liberalism refers to a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.[1] Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment.

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government.[2] All liberals — as well as some adherents of other political ideologies — support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law"

Unfortunately, the term has been hijacked by people with beliefs that are incompatible with actual Liberal values. One glaring example are Communists who consider themselves Liberal. Moreover, the term has become a blanket insult used by many Conservatives for anyone with whom they disagree.

I guess the bottom line is that you have to consider the person using the term and the context in which it is used when trying to figure out what that particular person means by the term "Liberal".

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"War involves in its progress such a train of unforeseen and unsupposed circumstances that no human wisdom can calculate the end. It has but one thing certain, and that is to increase taxes." - Thomas Paine

I understand. You see, they used to be far far to the left, and in some ways they still are sometimes. For instance, they used to consistently fight for any kind of freedom of expression. The problem is that this principle and other well intentioned principles like it became a faith, an inflexible doctrine called PC and its resulted in an extreme shift to the right or you could say a push so far to the left that it met the extreme right. PC is their best idea of a Utopian ruleset that will make everyone get along perfectly and solve all the world's problems and they are willing to do anything to enforce it, even sacrifice the spirit of the principles themself or the ability to maintain any of the rights they so vocally speak about.

No, they are not liberal either. They also want government control of all kinds of ridiculous things like personal drug use/possession, invasions of personal privacy for a billion theoretical reasons at the drop of the hat, surveillance, etc and of course are forced to compromise with the democrats on matters so cede principles of liberty. Still, they are at least sincere on foreign policy and support democracy and freedom in word and action, in many ways.

Only the libertarians are liberal now.

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Qur'an:8:39 Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.
Qur'an:8:67 It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter in the land.
Qur'an 8:12 I will terrorize the unbelievers...Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.
Qur'an 9:5 Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.

Yeah, the irony isn't lost on us either.


It started out that way. And liberals tend to see themselves as defenders of the downtrodden...but their solution tends to be excessive laws which oppress everyone else in the process. Liberals tend to be very authoritarian.

And that is what the word is associated with. PC means "politically correct"...it is a term used to describe choosing certain words simply because they are less likely to offend a given group of people.

"Liberal" therefore has a negative connotation in the US, and liberals themselves (at least most of them) don't like the word because of that. They prefer to be called "progressives" now. But there is no difference between the ideologies...it is semantic only.

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My Political Blog (Last post Feb 14) - My MySpace Page

DingDingDing! Someone tell this guy what he's won!

DanishDynamite, you win the chance to live in a country run by a two party monopoly with no relevant difference! You will be bombarded with shameless propaganda trying to earn your vote, and the perpetual idea that if you don't vote you are an uncaring and stupid boob who has no say in politics, while the two party system laughs in your face and continues to increase government's size and not instilling any of the values they promised to bring!


You also get a car. However, sense the taxes were so high, the car was taken away, and you now owe the government two hundred dollars.