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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 06:48 PM
Ilithiad Ilithiad is offline
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Originally Posted by MasTequila View Post
I feel that socialism is the taking of individuals property/wealth by the state or country and giving it to other people. Taxation when used for social programs is a form of socialism.
Dont be ridiculous. What should we say to those who are less fortunate than the well off? screw em?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Fascfiter View Post
I don't think that your average right-winger has any idea what the word means. Here is Socialism, as used by rightists:

1) Anything vaguely Liberal
2) Taking money from decent, hard-working Americans, and giving it to lazy, degenerate criminals (usually Black) who refuse to work.

Now here is Socialism, from Mill's Political Economy, as quoted in Black's Law Dictionary:

" ... not necessarily implying communism, but applied to any system which requires that the land and the instruments of production should be the property, not of individuals, but of communities or associations or of the government."

So can I ask you to in the future make an effort to use the term properly? Not as a blanket term for "anything I happen not to like."

ROFLMNAO... Sweet mother that's hysterical. (in at least two contexts and on several levels...)

So you feel that nationalizing real and personal property, thus preventing the individual from enjoying the means of production is somehow distinct from Communism?

That's one fine dance on that, pinhead.

Now I imagine this piddle is your way of implying that Nationalized Healthfare is somehow distinct from Socialism.

Here's the thing sis... Nationalized, Universal, Hillary Healthfare is socialism and socialism is communism. PERIOD.
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilithiad View Post
Dont be ridiculous. What should we say to those who are less fortunate than the well off? screw em?
ROFLMNAO.... You can say anything you want to those less fortunate than you.

You're free to spend as much of your time and invest as much of your property as you like to help those you 'feel' areless fortunate than you... but you've no right to steal my property to help anyone; just as I've no right to steal your property to help those I feel are less fortunate then me...

The simple fact is that you feel that because you violate this simple principle with the full power of the US Federal government backing you up, that it somehow makes it right. Well friend, I'm here to tell you that it does not...

Imagine that I came to your home this evening and took your car; this, so I could give it to a 16 year old that I know who works hard, makes good grades and needs a decent car to build up for the drags... I mean after all he can't use the one his Dad bought him and HE JUST LOVES TO GO FAST!

Now you might say that isn't fair... but it makes the kid feel better about himself and keeps him off the street. Now you've no car, but you say, 'hey, what the heck, it helped the kid out, so fine.'

Then you go out and buy another car... which I come and take to help the kids best friend, who was feeling bad because his buddy had a decant drag car and he didn't... and so on.

It's idiocy... grab a clue.
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Old 04-27-2008, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ilithiad View Post
Dont be ridiculous. What should we say to those who are less fortunate than the well off? screw em?
No that is what private charity is for.
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascfiter View Post
I don't think that your average right-winger has any idea what the word means. Here is Socialism, as used by rightists:


2) Taking money from decent, hard-working Americans, and giving it to lazy, degenerate criminals (usually Black) who refuse to work.

Does not apply in Maine, New Hampshire or Vermont , we have allot people on The dole but we are very White States.

Last edited by submarinepainter; 04-27-2008 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:07 AM
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All I know is socialism is perpetuated by the Democrats and not stopped by the so called "conservative" Republicans.
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fascfiter View Post
I don't think that your average right-winger has any idea what the word means. Here is Socialism, as used by rightists:

1) Anything vaguely Liberal
2) Taking money from decent, hard-working Americans, and giving it to lazy, degenerate criminals (usually Black) who refuse to work.

Now here is Socialism, from Mill's Political Economy, as quoted in Black's Law Dictionary:

" ... not necessarily implying communism, but applied to any system which requires that the land and the instruments of production should be the property, not of individuals, but of communities or associations or of the government."

So can I ask you to in the future make an effort to use the term properly? Not as a blanket term for "anything I happen not to like."
I'd say about 99% of the examples of socialism fit the dictionary's version. If you're going to make accusations how about specific examples with links? Otherwise it appears you are building an argument made of straw.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:10 AM
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It's a real shame that Liberalism has now been tied to Socialism, because to be fair they are both very different.

Conservatives tend to argue for the Free Market, Individualism and all that jazz which were originally Liberal ideas. However now, these ideas are considered Conservative and now Liberal has come to mean 'Social Liberalism' or Socialism.

However now the US is becoming a post-industrial society and eventually will have mass unemployment of industrial workers which will generate social unrest much like Europe in the 60's and 70's. Unless the Conservatives can figure out a way to appease them then the Democrats will be in power for a very long time because unfortunately traditional liberals or Conservatives have forgotten about these people and like it or not they still represent the majority. What's the Conservatives answer for that hmm? Just retrain them in other work? That's not gunna happen. This is the biggest crisis confronting America at the moment, the readjustment to a post-industrial society. We are only at the beginning...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2008, 08:59 AM
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Maybe if your going to post definitions to words and then expect people to follow them, you should post all the possible definitions instead ofjust the ones that are most applicable to your cause.

so·cial·ism –noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.


Definitions from two other dictonaries. Nice try at slandercraft though.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:16 AM
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Lets not be Black and white here. There is a difference Between Socialism and communism! The line is finite and easily transversed. Hillary Clintons Heath care plan since mentioned is a form of socialism. This point being is we will pay for one way or another; either by additional taxes or by payroll deduction, like most people do now! The line gets crossed when people who actually can’t pay for it, get it free and spread the costs out to the others in the collective group! (Just like now) Subsidized housing is a form of socialism as well, there are examples of socialistic programs all over this country and we don’t have much choice in there existence other then voting for a candidate who says he will do away with them. That candidate would never get the popular vote! Even the Webster Dictionary listing refers to an in-between state! Or is Webster’s Dictionary wrong?
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