Its no big deal about who said it...If you read my post I kind of agree with you to an extent.

Next time ill just try to not be lazy and look up who said it so the rest of my point doesnt get lost in the shuffle lol.

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"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

I had to re-read this post to try and see where you find any difference between what I said and what "mandated healthcare" requires.............or, for that matter, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, environmental laws, tax rates, or primary education. Can you share your insight here?

"A strong central ruler must be set apart from the influence of the majority. Whether one's "convictions" are aligned with such rule is irrelevant, as long as obedience is enforced."

There aren't any differences. You would like the government to have complete control over every aspect of my life. I would rather decide whether or not I want healthcare than be forced to take a "free" mandated government system (and I'm not even talking about how pathetic and expense this system would be). I would rather decide what to do for my retirement rather than have the government try to provide for me with a pathetic system like Social Security (do you realize if I invested all that money I lose to SS each year I would have a few million by the time I retire? What will SS give me? A few thousand a year?).

I could go on and on over the inefficiencies of government. Plain and simple, I prefer choice over mandate. Liberty over government. Let everyone decide for themselves rather than one decide for everyone.

Well, that's a prime example of archaic thinking not aligned with the modern world. Enforcement of dictated law has been our "rule" for a generation in America.

Christian dialogue is protected by the outdated Constitution, but we've found it better to silence it in our schools and other government buildings (and soon.........everywhere). Abortions had to be made legal by judicial mandate rather than be kept illegal by popular vote. Re-defining "patriotism," "racism," and "environmentalism" through the power of central rule has been the boon to the progressive movement since the mid-sixties.

I suggest you cast off your remaining antiquities concerning all that freedom of choice you prefer, and join the 21st century. Stop sounding like a conservative caveman. Most things have become much too important to the world for frivilous liberties to stand in the way.

What principles do you adhere to? Obviously not freedom. Doesn't sound like acceptance, equality, compassion, understanding or anything even remotely resembling those. Does sound like you covet power and control. Ever heard of Stalin? Hitler? They might be angry that your stealing their talking points...

All he does is prove us right that the foundations of anti-religion and abortion go back to national socialism and communism.

Sounds like the original posters definition, doesn't it.

" ... not necessarily implying communism, but applied to any system which requires that the land and the instruments of production should be the property, not of individuals, but of communities or associations or of the
government."

We use the term socialism when we feel that our money/assets are being redistributed by the government...welfare for example is a social program. In other words, the government claims our money and redistributes it to the "community". And no "community" does not mean black people. There are tons of poor white people, mexican people, etc.

Nothing is being stolen here. Democrats have always stood for these things and will continue to move America in the direction of a progressive state. Equality can only be achieved by centralized control over wealth, health, property, education, and the environment. Are you thinking you have meaningful personal say-so on these matters? Wake up.

It really doesn't matter what some of you ancient out-daters think. Obama or Hillary..............or even, McCain..........will certainly continue to move America in the proper direction. Change is at hand.

Guys, just want to confirm something here, socialism is not confiscation of all property, it's giving the means of production to those who work them - ie the working people.

In a socialist society for example the factory would make available to the community what they produce, and in return rest of the community makes available all it produces to them. Everyone produces what their factory produces, and you provide this product back to the community. Thus production in socialism is only for the people and what they need, who decides what the community needs might you ask? Well any community knows what it wants.

Barter = I trade you my pointy sticks for your chickens.
Post-currency Economics = I make my pointy sticks available to the community, the community makes all it produces available to me.

That's true... no question about it... but such a system can only establish equality to the lowest common denominator; thus any culture practicing such a system will only be as productive as the least of its members.

Given that the least of any culture is the least prouctive of the species, such a culture will inevitably suffer production levels well below that necessary to sustain it; thus it must inevitably fail.

Simple stuff really...