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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 02:03 PM
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Anyway, on the topic at hand, here is how I stand:

I am very sympathetic to your call to do away with useless legislation, but I disagree with you on the way to do it. I think there should be a new field of specialization of lawyers whose purpose is to argue for or against the usefulness or effectiveness on whatever laws were brought before them. It would be similar to the criminal court system we have today, except for the defendant would be a law itself instead of a person.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
Anyway, on the topic at hand, here is how I stand:

I am very sympathetic to your call to do away with useless legislation, but I disagree with you on the way to do it. I think there should be a new field of specialization of lawyers whose purpose is to argue for or against the usefulness or effectiveness on whatever laws were brought before them. It would be similar to the criminal court system we have today, except for the defendant would be a law itself instead of a person.
So you want to introduce more people to oversee more people that already oversee other things?

Too many people, too much corruption for me.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
That is the traditional understanding. However, ever since the nineties, the conservatives have taken less and less care about restricting the government and have become increasingly indistinguishable from the liberals.
I'm glad to hear you say that.

Happened before the '90's though.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:11 PM
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So you want to introduce more people to oversee more people that already oversee other things?

Too many people, too much corruption for me.
You know, in businesses, the way they often try to implement internal controls and prevent corruption is by having multiple people monitoring the same process. I don't think it's bad idea to have a formal process of review by people who are not directly under the authority of congress. You might say it's congress's job to consider new laws and legislative action, and this other group, whatever it may be, merely reviews laws and studies their shortcomings and ways to simplify them. They would have to be life time members, however, with little actual power to prevent them from getting caught up in the nitty grity of politics and corruption.

Granted, even this is nowhere near perfect, I'm sure, but internal controls is nothing to scoff at as every successful business must implement them.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
Anyway, on the topic at hand, here is how I stand:

I am very sympathetic to your call to do away with useless legislation, but I disagree with you on the way to do it. I think there should be a new field of specialization of lawyers whose purpose is to argue for or against the usefulness or effectiveness on whatever laws were brought before them. It would be similar to the criminal court system we have today, except for the defendant would be a law itself instead of a person.
Lol they already have those. They're called lobbyists. They're actually more of a problem than a solution. Now instead of the majority getting what it wants, small interest groups get their power. Why do you think the green movement is so strong, it's because they have dominating lobbyists.
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I never claimed that 100,000 civilians died by American hands. I merely state the fact that our invasion and occupation has resulted in 100,000 civilian deaths.

This is figure approximates the numbers from Iraq Body Count, the most well documented, and highly regarded, source of civilian Iraq deaths from violence during our war with Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
So you want to introduce more people to oversee more people that already oversee other things?

Too many people, too much corruption for me.
Well, I'd do it myself, but even if I spent every waking hour getting rid of unnecessary laws, it would take way too long to get rid of them for it to be effective. So, I do need people to help me. And then I realize that I don't even want to do it in the first place, so I need to get other people to do it. However, I still have to be part of the process in order to ensure that progress is being made in the direction I want, so I will probably like to have some supervisory role in all this. And then there is even more complexity., but as long as the goal is still in sight and unharmed, any complexity that gets there faster is fine by me.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Lol they already have those. They're called lobbyists. They're actually more of a problem than a solution. Now instead of the majority getting what it wants, small interest groups get their power. Why do you think the green movement is so strong, it's because they have dominating lobbyists.
Well, that is a little different. They try to get rid of stuff they don't want just by being the loudest and most forceful in the room. The system I want doesn't reward fervor that is not also accompanied by sound logic. The arguments between the lawyers aren't theatrical in nature and everyone in the room has the same goals in mind, or at least the same attention to the needs and frustrations of the people as a whole and are not communicative with Congress.
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Old 04-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
Well, that is a little different. They try to get rid of stuff they don't want just by being the loudest and most forceful in the room. The system I want doesn't reward fervor that is not also accompanied by sound logic. The arguments between the lawyers aren't theatrical in nature and everyone in the room has the same goals in mind, or at least the same attention to the needs and frustrations of the people as a whole and are not communicative with Congress.
Some day the world will be perfect. But we're probably not going to see it. Your idea, right now, is just a generalized moral. Congress should act that way and something should be done to make sure it happens, but things aren't done that way and probably for good reason. Come up with some more specifics so that people can debate whether or not they're doable - you're sort of dancing around a vague idea with out explaining it at all.
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Originally Posted by catawba View Post
I never claimed that 100,000 civilians died by American hands. I merely state the fact that our invasion and occupation has resulted in 100,000 civilian deaths.

This is figure approximates the numbers from Iraq Body Count, the most well documented, and highly regarded, source of civilian Iraq deaths from violence during our war with Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffLV View Post
You know, in businesses, the way they often try to implement internal controls and prevent corruption is by having multiple people monitoring the same process.
Since when?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catawba View Post
I never claimed that 100,000 civilians died by American hands. I merely state the fact that our invasion and occupation has resulted in 100,000 civilian deaths.

This is figure approximates the numbers from Iraq Body Count, the most well documented, and highly regarded, source of civilian Iraq deaths from violence during our war with Iraq.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
So your logic is that if we are not there, the number will go down... That makes perfect sense... not.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Some day the world will be perfect. But we're probably not going to see it. Your idea, right now, is just a generalized moral. Congress should act that way and something should be done to make sure it happens, but things aren't done that way and probably for good reason. Come up with some more specifics so that people can debate whether or not they're doable - you're sort of dancing around a vague idea with out explaining it at all.
What is your idea of "specifics"?
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