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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:19 AM
C-D-P C-D-P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
Of course the UN cannot force the USA to do anything. That does not change the fact though that the invasion of Iraq was illegal, as it was carried out without the sanction of the UN Security Council, in contravention of Article 39 of the UN Charter - a treaty which forms part of the body of US Law under Article 6 of the US Constitution.


When are you going to admit to these lies you keep telling?
We do not need a blessing from the UN to do anything if we feel it is in the best interests of the US.

Leave other threads in other threads, and dump the ad hominem attacks. Are you completely incapable of discussing things in a mature fashion?
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Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:37 AM
bugalugs bugalugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-D-P View Post
We do not need a blessing from the UN to do anything if we feel it is in the best interests of the US.
Invading a UN member nation without sanction from the UN Security Council is illegal under Article 39 of the UN Charter, which under Article 6 of the US Constitution forms part of the body of US Law.

It is nothing about blessings. The invasion was illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by C-D-P View Post
Leave other threads in other threads, and dump the ad hominem attacks. Are you completely incapable of discussing things in a mature fashion?
You can't run away from the lies you tell.

Here are three:
- There are "thousands" of peer-reviewed scientific papers which argue against AGW,
- 1938 was globally the hottest year on record,
- the word "islamofascist" was coined in the 1930s

When are you going to admit that you were completely and utterly wrong and retract those statements

Are you completely incapable of admitting your mistakes in a mature fashion?
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:46 AM
Publius Infinitum Publius Infinitum is offline
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Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
No sis, the UN Charter is US law...

Ahh... the oft' trotted out "Repeat the failed, but using the construct of the winning argument... tactic.

ROFLMNAO...

Dayum-NATION you people are weak.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:53 AM
Publius Infinitum Publius Infinitum is offline
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Originally Posted by Publius Infinitum View Post
Ahh... the oft' trotted out "Repeat the failed, but using the construct of the winning argument... tactic.
ROFLMNAO...

But that does match the old tried and true "CHANGE THE FREAKIN' SUBJECT tactic, which you employed next with the our in-house Master at Arms; The Honorable CDP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
(Repeat of the chronically failed argument...)

PATHETIC ATTEMPT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT (for obvious reasons)>>> >>>

Does it bother you that almost everything you post is completely wrong. Such as:

- There are "thousands" of peer-reviewed scientific papers which argue against AGW,
- 1938 was globally the hottest year on record,
- the word "islamofascist" was coined in the 1930s

When are you going to admit to these lies you keep telling?

ROFLMNAO...

Dayum-NATION you people are weak.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 06:54 AM
C-D-P C-D-P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
Invading a UN member nation without sanction from the UN Security Council is illegal under Article 39 of the UN Charter, which under Article 6 of the US Constitution forms part of the body of US Law.
You need to read that article again. It says nothing of the sort.

Quote:
The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.
This is talking about when the UN is involved in the conflict.

Article 41.

Quote:
The Security Council may decide what measures not involving the use of armed force are to be employed to give effect to its decisions, and it may call upon the Members of the United Nations to apply such measures. These may include complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio, and other means of communication, and the severance of diplomatic relations.
Says nothing about if the member must uphold said ruling.

Article 42.

Quote:
Should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.
Still nothing that you mentioned.

Does that mean you lied?

Quote:
You can't run away from the lies you tell.

Here are three:
- There are "thousands" of peer-reviewed scientific papers which argue against AGW,
- 1938 was globally the hottest year on record,
- the word "islamofascist" was coined in the 1930s

When are you going to admit that you were completely and utterly wrong and retract those statements

Are you completely incapable of admitting your mistakes in a mature fashion?
I am not running from anything. You continuously twist my words. For example I provided evidence to back up the 1938 claim. You have yet to provide any evidence that says those sources were wrong. You only attacked without backing.

I said that we do not know where islamofascist came from, but it is believed to have been coined in the 30s.

And it is not my fault that you twisted what I was saying in the GW thread.

Come off it and come up with something substantive to back your own claims.

Can you now debate the subject at hand in a mature way? Or are you going to continue to slander everyone that does not agree with you?
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Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?

Last edited by C-D-P; 05-07-2008 at 06:56 AM.
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:04 AM
Bobcat1 Bobcat1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugalugs View Post
But he invasion was illegal under Article 39 of the UN Charter, which by Article 6 of the US Constitution forms part of US law.
This is false. The UN Charter in no way causes a member nation to abrogate its right to go to war. No government would seriously entertain the notion of becoming a member if it lost the right to defend itself.

Quote:
Article 39
The Security Council shall determine the existence of any threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression and shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security.
This merely says that the security council will make recommendations concerning international conflicts.

Quote:
Article 40
In order to prevent an aggravation of the situation, the Security Council may, before making the recommendations or deciding upon the measures provided for in Article 39, call upon the parties concerned to comply with such provisional measures as it deems necessary or desirable. Such provisional measures shall be without prejudice to the rights, claims, or position of the parties concerned. The Security Council shall duly take account of failure to comply with such provisional measures.
"Calling on members to comply with measures', again, doesn't in any way mean that a given act of war is or is not legal.

Quote:
Article 41
The Security Council may decide what measures not involving the use of armed force are to be employed to give effect to its decisions, and it may call upon the Members of the United Nations to apply such measures. These may include complete or partial interruption of economic relations and of rail, sea, air, postal, telegraphic, radio, and other means of communication, and the severance of diplomatic relations.
This merely says the Security Council can impose sanctions.

Last edited by Bobcat1; 05-07-2008 at 07:07 AM.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 07:04 AM
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Did the US have an authorization before bombing Afghanistan? nope.

Article 51

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 08:59 AM
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Bug's keeps wanting to bring his tired illegal war argument to every thread. The simple fact of the matter is that the US does not require the consent of the UN to use force.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:47 AM
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Why does anyone have any faith in the UN

Oil for Food Scandal

Sexaul abuse of refugees in the Congo

Sexual Slave trade in Thailand

And this is just what we know
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2008, 09:50 AM
C-D-P C-D-P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazan View Post
Why does anyone have any faith in the UN

Oil for Food Scandal

Sexaul abuse of refugees in the Congo

Sexual Slave trade in Thailand

And this is just what we know
Because it offers a glimmer of hope that he is right and we are all wrong.
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Jones:- We're going to teach them climbing, abseiling, canoeing, archery, shooting...

Interviewer:- Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible isn't it?

Jones:- I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the range.

Interviewer:- Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?
You're equipping them to become violent killers.

Jones:- Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute but you're not one are you?
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