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Old 05-04-2008, 04:21 PM
gmb92 gmb92 is offline
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Default Great Carl Sagan quote from 1995

"Presidents are given control of foreign policy and the conduct of wars, which are potentially powerful tools for getting themselves re-elected. Presidents of either political party may therefore be tempted to arange wars while waving the flag and calling the wars something else - "policy actions," "armed incursions," "protective reaction strikes," "pacification," "safeguarding American interests," and a wide variety of "operations," such as "Operation Just Cause." Euphemisms for war are one of a broad class of reinventions of language for political purposes. Talleyrand said, "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public".

- Carl Sagan, "The Demon-Haunted World"
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:48 PM
BigRed BigRed is offline
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Originally Posted by gmb92 View Post
"Presidents are given control of foreign policy and the conduct of wars, which are potentially powerful tools for getting themselves re-elected. Presidents of either political party may therefore be tempted to arange wars while waving the flag and calling the wars something else - "policy actions," "armed incursions," "protective reaction strikes," "pacification," "safeguarding American interests," and a wide variety of "operations," such as "Operation Just Cause." Euphemisms for war are one of a broad class of reinventions of language for political purposes. Talleyrand said, "An important art of politicians is to find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the public".

- Carl Sagan, "The Demon-Haunted World"
Presidents can't (or under the Constitution at least, shouldn't be allowed to) conduct war.

Nonetheless, Carl is spot on with regards to politicans coming up with friendly sounding and peace-loving words to describe brutal and aggressive action.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:00 AM
Whaler17 Whaler17 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
Presidents can't (or under the Constitution at least, shouldn't be allowed to) conduct war.

Nonetheless, Carl is spot on with regards to politicans coming up with friendly sounding and peace-loving words to describe brutal and aggressive action.
Yeah Desert Storm is a real warm and fuzzy moniker!
Your bias is showing!
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:07 AM
BigRed BigRed is offline
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Yeah Desert Storm is a real warm and fuzzy moniker!
Your bias is showing!
Look at most of the conflicts we have been involved in since 1945. I'll name a few for you:

Joint Guardian (Kosovo)
Shining Hope (Kosovo)
Eagle Eye (Kosovo)
Provide Promise (Bosnia)
Shining Presence (Israel)
Vigilant Warrior (Kuwait)
Provide Hope (Former Soviet Union)
Support Justice (South America)
Nobel Response (Kenya)

I mean, how about "Operation Iraqi Freedom"?
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:16 AM
Whaler17 Whaler17 is offline
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Look at most of the conflicts we have been involved in since 1945. I'll name a few for you:

Joint Guardian (Kosovo)
Shining Hope (Kosovo)
Eagle Eye (Kosovo)
Provide Promise (Bosnia)
Shining Presence (Israel)
Vigilant Warrior (Kuwait)
Provide Hope (Former Soviet Union)
Support Justice (South America)
Nobel Response (Kenya)

I mean, how about "Operation Iraqi Freedom"?

These have more to do with motivating and encouraging the troops than they do with garnering popular public support. Think about it, how many of those operation names were common public knowledge prior to Desert Storm? the fact that there was a pattern evident before Desert Storm shows that these names are not aimed at the public.
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:18 AM
BigRed BigRed is offline
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These have more to do with motivating and encouraging the troops than they do with garnering popular public support. Think about it, how many of those operation names were common public knowledge prior to Desert Storm? the fact that there was a pattern evident before Desert Storm shows that these names are not aimed at the public.
I don't care who they are aimed at.

They are downplaying the situation. Saying, "Look we are doing something noble."

Government is contradictory. In some instances, they play up the fear card like nobody else can. In other instances, they are like mommies to two year olds trying to downplay instances that are cause for alarm (like the economy).

Kind of like how half the commercials on television are weight loss commercials and the other half are fast food commercials.
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:19 AM
Whaler17 Whaler17 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
Look at most of the conflicts we have been involved in since 1945. I'll name a few for you:

Joint Guardian (Kosovo)
Shining Hope (Kosovo)
Eagle Eye (Kosovo)
Provide Promise (Bosnia)
Shining Presence (Israel)
Vigilant Warrior (Kuwait)
Provide Hope (Former Soviet Union)
Support Justice (South America)
Nobel Response (Kenya)

I mean, how about "Operation Iraqi Freedom"?
Would you prefer:

"Operation annihiliation"
"Operation bloody streets"
"Operation decapitation"

It is hilarious to me that those who decry the noble names would be appalled if we used more brutal names and would complain about our barbarism!
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:20 AM
Whaler17 Whaler17 is offline
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I don't care who they are aimed at.

They are downplaying the situation. Saying, "Look we are doing something noble."

Government is contradictory. In some instances, they play up the fear card like nobody else can. In other instances, they are like mommies to two year olds trying to downplay instances that are cause for alarm (like the economy).

Kind of like how half the commercials on television are weight loss commercials and the other half are fast food commercials.
I guess you do not consider protecting our nation's intyerests noble. If that is the case, I am wasting my time conversing with you.
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:21 AM
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Would you prefer:

"Operation annihiliation"
"Operation bloody streets"
"Operation decapitation"

It is hilarious to me that those who decry the noble names would be appalled if we used more brutal names and would complain about our barbarism!
What's wrong with "The war in Iraq"?
In the old days we had things like "The Korean War"... "The War in the Pacific"... or the aptly named "Vietnam War"?

Why do they have to have code names at all? Why not just descriptive names?
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:22 AM
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From now on, they should all be called:

Operation American Hero 1
Operation American Hero 2
Operation American Hero 3 ....

Then anyone who criticizes the war is in reality criticizing our American heroes in uniform and the PC crowd from the right can feign righteous indignation and slam said protesters.
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