You're the one who obviously have nil historical education or even a cursory knowledge on the matter at hand. Hitler and Mussolini nationalized nothing, everything was run by privately-owned corporations which were regulated 'in the national interest'. In all fascist regimes collective bargaining and labor unions were banned, wages and conditions were cut and worker's had no rights and no political power.

According to Marxism-Leninism, corporatism exists in capitalist society when independent trade unions representing the economic interests of the working class have been replaced by "corporations" of which both capitalist managements and employed workers are members.

In Nazi Germany the Labour Front was a classic "corporation". It included
"... the members of all the previous trade unions, the previous salaried workers' associations and the previous employers' associations".

( R.A. Brady: "The Spirit and Structure of German Fascism"; London; 1937; p. 125).
In the words of the Leader of the Labour Front, Robert Ley:
"The management of the Labour Front is in the hands of the National Socialist German Labour Party".

(R. Ley: Address to the Foreign Press, March 7th., 1935, in: R.A. Brady: ibid.; p. 124).
The result of Nazi corporatism was:
"Employers have practically complete control over workmen in regard to wages, hours and working conditions...Collective bargaining is completely abolished".

You can look to the propaganda of the fascists if you like, but I prefer to look to the substance of what they did when it power, and the fact is they nationalized nothing, fascism was a society in which the economy was owned by an elite of corrupt capitalists who owned mega politically-connected corporations.

Mussolini for example said he wanted progressive taxation, nationalization of capital etc, but when in power this never happened, it never happened because although fascism makes nice rhetoric towards the workers, it's ultimately a tool of the capitalists.

How is a corporation that has a monopoly on a sector of the economy and is completely regulated by the government, for the people, any different than the control of a monopoly by a labor organization?

I have also noticed in this thread that I take the time to show you evidence of why your assertions are false, which you then ignore while making the same claims over again, and not refuting my argument against yours.

__________________

"You are just stuck in a box."

--Zaro

Like it has already been pointed out, fascism is left wing like ALL totalitarian governments. This discussion is old, tired and any resurrection of it is something you noobs and liberal/commie deniers are welcome to revisit.

The rest of us who know the truth will just sit back and laugh at your idiocy.





Cheers!

Corporations were privately-owned, ie by the bourgeois elite. Yes fascism is a different, very statist form of capitalism, but it is capitalism none the less. Just like welfare capitalism, fascism existed only in a specific time period when the threat of capitalism being destroyed by Communist movements prompted the political capitalist elite to use radical nationalism and statism as a tool against Communist liberation. Was fascism pure free-market capitalism? Of course not. But I am afraid because the American political spectrum is so far to the right, that anything which is slightly different from the current market capitalism is instantly 'socialist' to people like you. The world my friend is not that simple. Fascism and welfare capitalism (FDR New Deal) came about after the collapse of the old liberal capitalist order after WWI, Great Depression etc.

The irony of your post is sickening. I'm sorry, comrade, but Communists liberate no one. There is a reason why both fascism and the New Deal came at the same time. If you are convinced that fascism was simply a conspiracy and that everyone involved supported nationalized industry and the common man simply so that they could force everybody against there will to contribute to a free-market, capitalist system, then there is no helping you. Conspiracy theories are jokes. You deny everything that the Nazis said they believed, and say that they supported everything they detested. You say that the American political spectrum is far right, then Europe is far left, and fascism is the right wing of the extreme leftism (Though still left). There is no statist form of capitalism. Capitalist systems support the removal of monopolies so that competition ensures that supply and demand are equal. (Read Adam Smith, founder of capitalism)

__________________

"You are just stuck in a box."

--Zaro

Please make this thread go away!! If we do another 60 pages on this


PS. I shot the black smiley just for you billy!!

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!



Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?



"Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead." -Thomas Paine

OK..........now fess-up. Which one of you has been forcing the "frod" to read this thread? Cumon, admit it. He just couldn't be here of his own free will.

I confess, I force people to do things they don't want for the common good instead of letting them make their own choices on what they want to with their life.

__________________

"You are just stuck in a box."

--Zaro

Well it's not all that complex an argument sis, I was talking about this:

In that analysis you simply pointed out that Marx requires revolution, the destruction of the nation and its culture... while fascists do roughly the same thing without the destruction of the culture.


Thus my position...

Oh absolutely, I mean just LOOK how open YOUR mind is...




After all, nothing says power argument like: "You don't know what you're talking about! YOUR MIND IS CLOSED!"

Yes sir sis, you're all OVER IT

LOL... Leftists...

I don't 'attempt' anything sis... I'm merely stating fact: Fascism is Socialism around a nation and Marxism is socialism without nations... Other than that, there are no discernable distinctions beyond the pedantic...

Nice out of context semi-quote... What was the conception of life to which he was referring?

Just to clue ya in sis, El Duci was El Duci of the Italian socialist party before he became El Duci Italia... He was the editor of the Largest Socialist Magazine when the Magazine was KING, long before television... He was an international ROCK star among the early 20th century Progressives.

He merely recognized at the outset of WW1, as did Vladimir Lenin, that International Socialism was NEVER going to succeed, as to do so, it would have to rid the world of sovereignty and with the commencement of the war, it was clear that sovereignty reigned supreme and that that wasn't about to change...

SO Mussolini advocated FOR the war, despite the protestation of the Socialists, he opted to advocate the interests of Italy and began his campaign to utilize the invalid emotional tugs inherent in international socialism to promote what was fast becoming known as 'Secular Progression,' AKA: Fascism...

The Nazis were hardly the sole example of fascism; the Italian fascists had virtually nothing in common with the Nazis... and despite myths to the contrary, the Italians had no problem with Jews... in fact Jews were over represented in the Italian fascist legislature.

There is nothing closer to the defining traits of fascism than the US Democrat party... and the liberals that comprise it, along with those who for political reasons are registered in the Republican party.

They are the sole source of fascist regulations, confiscatory taxation and the rationalization that such is necessary to fund social programs...

They are the truest essence of fascism.