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Old 05-08-2008, 11:06 AM
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Default Why Do They Hate Us and How Do We End the War?

The U.S. is being attacked for things the U.S. government has done overseas. They do not "hate us for our wealth and freedom" as the Neoconservative Republicans falsely claim in their propaganda.

For example, why were hostages taken in the U.S. embassy in Iran in the 70's?

It was because in Iran, in 1953, the CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader so that British Petroleum could maintain rights to the oil. The oil nationalization bill passed unanimously in the Iranian Parliament. I don't believe in socialist policies - however - that was what their democracy decided. The Shah - the U.S. puppet - had a secret police force that made several people "disappear." And that was the spark that caused the Iranian hostage crisis at the U.S. embassy. Not because they just woke up one day and decided to "hate us for our wealth and freedom."

The CIA's own report, which you can see in the documentary "Why We Fight," stated that the United States should expect "blowback" - meaning violent retaliation - for its role in the coup.

The U.S. has been sticking its nose in the Middle East for quite some time. It's actions have led to the imprisonment, torture and/or death of innocent people there. And that leads their surviving friends and family to seek revenge.

Here is a report detailing an introduction to the problem, and to the solution.

We often hear the two questions in the title of this article. First we will take, why do they hate us?, but before we get started, let me say this:
The country and the government are not the same thing. Nothing I say or write is ever meant to be a criticism of America. I love this country and would not want to live anywhere else.
The government is a different matter. For most of my adult life, I have considered the federal leviathan in Washington to be my country's most dangerous enemy. It is one of the most brutal states in all of world history, reminiscent of the Roman Empire. In the six parts of this report, I will give the evidence.

Do they really hate us?
Americans see their country as a wonderful place - the land of the free and home of the brave, the savior that rescued the world from Hitler and Tojo, the source of uncountable technological advancements, purple mountains, amber waves of grain. How could anyone hate us?
They don't hate us. I began traveling abroad in 1967. I've lived abroad, and visited 44 countries. For each person who treated me badly, there have been at least a hundred who have been friendly and helpful.
But they really, really hate the US government.
Again, the country and the government are not the same thing. Long ago, foreigners made this distinction, and rarely held the individual American responsible for the actions of his government. They knew the typical American knew little about what federal officials were doing in other countries.
But that pleasant circumstance is ending, as the destruction of the Twin Towers showed.
Foreigners can't do much damage to the federal government, so they're coming after the ordinary American - you and me, and our families.

They Backed Any Tyrant
Born on a continent that is separated from the rest of the world by two oceans, US politicians have always been exceedingly ignorant and naive about the feelings of foreigners.
Almost from the day it was created, Washington has had a policy of backing any tyrant who claimed to be pro-US. These "pro-US" cutthroats have received money, weapons, ammunition, almost anything they needed to suppress their own populations and attack other countries.
For decades, victims of these "pro-US" thugs tried to change the behavior of the US government. Mass protests at the gates of US embassies became routine.
The demonstrations had little effect, so the increasingly frustrated victims of the US leviathan state began to hit back against the individuals represented by that state. These acts of revenge were dubbed...

...Terrorism
The official US explanation for the "terrorism," has been, they hate us because we are good and they are bad.
Actually, I'm convinced that in most cases the attackers do not hate the people they are killing, any more than US bomber crews hated the civilian men, women and children they were killing in World War II.
If a foreign government is a threat to your family, you hurt it in whatever ways you can, including killing the people who work for it and pay taxes to support it.
The "terrorists" would love to be using aircraft carriers, cruise missiles and B-1 bombers on Washington, but they don't have them, so they use what they have.
Also, most US government facilities have been "hardened," leaving only "soft" civilian targets to hit.
In other words, like armies all through history, the "terrorists" use what they have and hit what they can.
If you happen to own a few spare Ohio-class Trident missile submarines you'd like to donate to Washington's enemies, I'm sure these people would launch a full-blown textbook war against us and lose all interest in so-called terrorism.

Part of the Solution
The ancient US policy of supporting any tyrant who claims to be pro-US has ignored the fact that each victim of these tyrants has had family and friends, and these people retaliate.
Part of the solution, therefore, is ethics. The US government must stop supporting governments that harm the innocent.
Notice that the ethical approach is also the pragmatic approach. An ethical foreign policy helps minimize the number of people who hate us and try to kill us.
Here is an updated article that appeared in my March 2002 U.S. & World Early Warning Report.

Blowback
In my opinion, the most important war in US history was the Spanish-American War in 1898. After defeating Spain, Washington set up a puppet government in the Philippines.
To install this puppet, the US Army massacred 220,000 Filipino men, women and children.1 This was the precedent for Washington's massive and routine interventions in foreign countries. Interventions prior to that had been less frequent and smaller in scale.
During the 20th century, US forces were sent into foreign conflicts no less than 188 times.2
Since 1898, every president, both democrat and republican, has ordered American troops into far corners of the globe, usually not to defend liberty, but to train, equip or provide other kinds of help to the armed forces of crooks and tyrants. These Washington-backed terrorists have included Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Manuel Noriega in Panama, President Diem of Vietnam, the Shah of Iran, Marcos in the Philippines, Batista in Cuba, Mobutu in the Congo, Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan, General Park in Korea, Suharto and Habibie in Indonesia, and many others.
China's Chiang Kai-shek in World War II murdered twice as many innocent civilians as the Japanese,3 yet President Franklin Roosevelt backed Chiang - he sent the Flying Tigers to help him.
The Japanese retaliated by hitting Pearl Harbor.
The CIA calls that blowback.
Blowback is the root cause of the "terrorism."
President Roosevelt had also frozen Japanese assets,4 sent cruisers and destroyers to invade Japanese home waters,5 and cut off Japan's supplies of oil, iron and other raw materials.6 Yet, I have never heard of anyone asking after the Pearl Harbor attack, why do they hate us?
Roosevelt boiled Washington's foreign policy down into 15 words when he famously said of the Nicaraguan cutthroat Somoza, "he may be a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****."
Ours. Part of our empire. One of our enforcers.

Rest of Article Here

Part Two is detailed examples of the damage the U.S. government has done in other countries.

Parts Three and Four are complete, or nearly complete, lists of all US military actions in other countries.

Part Five is a few short examples of the 19th century precedents for the US government's actions against non-US citizens during the 20th century.

Part Six is a summary and conclusions, including one of the most shocking statistics you will ever read.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2008, 10:32 PM
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i don't really know why they hate us.
and i don't care.
all that matters is that they do hate us.
the reasons are irrelevant at this point.
i firmly believe there is nothing the US could possibly do to keep 'terrorists' from hating and killing us.
it's what they're raised to do.
if a nation chooses to teach its people from a young age to hate non-muslims, especially israel and America,
we can't be blamed when they take the final step and actually attack us.
blame the society/religion that raised them to believe blowing up buses and office buildings is an acceptable expression of their anger.
give all the 'US kills civilians all the time' numbers you want.
there IS a difference between accidental 'colateral' damage,
and intentional mass murder.

i also strongly disagree with the underlying message that the US somehow owes the world so much,
that we forfeit our right to defend ourselves.
it's obviously a topic full of numbers that can be spun either way.
if you're looking for the US to be responsible for nearly every unnatural death since ww2,
then that's what you'll find.
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:00 PM
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Interesting post...

I dont agree with all of that of course. Some of it is a bit short sighted and only gives a partial viewpoint of the reasons certain things occured.

However at the same time it DOES illustrate some of our past misdeeds and as history has taught us people dont easily forget these types of things.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer View Post
The U.S. is being attacked for things the U.S. government has done overseas. They do not "hate us for our wealth and freedom" as the Neoconservative Republicans falsely claim in their propaganda.

For example, why were hostages taken in the U.S. embassy in Iran in the 70's?

It was because in Iran, in 1953, the CIA overthrew the democratically elected leader so that British Petroleum could maintain rights to the oil. The oil nationalization bill passed unanimously in the Iranian Parliament. I don't believe in socialist policies - however - that was what their democracy decided. The Shah - the U.S. puppet - had a secret police force that made several people "disappear." And that was the spark that caused the Iranian hostage crisis at the U.S. embassy. Not because they just woke up one day and decided to "hate us for our wealth and freedom."

The CIA's own report, which you can see in the documentary "Why We Fight," stated that the United States should expect "blowback" - meaning violent retaliation - for its role in the coup.

The U.S. has been sticking its nose in the Middle East for quite some time. It's actions have led to the imprisonment, torture and/or death of innocent people there. And that leads their surviving friends and family to seek revenge.

Here is a report detailing an introduction to the problem, and to the solution.

We often hear the two questions in the title of this article. First we will take, why do they hate us?, but before we get started, let me say this:
The country and the government are not the same thing. Nothing I say or write is ever meant to be a criticism of America. I love this country and would not want to live anywhere else.
The government is a different matter. For most of my adult life, I have considered the federal leviathan in Washington to be my country's most dangerous enemy. It is one of the most brutal states in all of world history, reminiscent of the Roman Empire. In the six parts of this report, I will give the evidence.

Do they really hate us?
Americans see their country as a wonderful place - the land of the free and home of the brave, the savior that rescued the world from Hitler and Tojo, the source of uncountable technological advancements, purple mountains, amber waves of grain. How could anyone hate us?
They don't hate us. I began traveling abroad in 1967. I've lived abroad, and visited 44 countries. For each person who treated me badly, there have been at least a hundred who have been friendly and helpful.
But they really, really hate the US government.
Again, the country and the government are not the same thing. Long ago, foreigners made this distinction, and rarely held the individual American responsible for the actions of his government. They knew the typical American knew little about what federal officials were doing in other countries.
But that pleasant circumstance is ending, as the destruction of the Twin Towers showed.
Foreigners can't do much damage to the federal government, so they're coming after the ordinary American - you and me, and our families.

They Backed Any Tyrant
Born on a continent that is separated from the rest of the world by two oceans, US politicians have always been exceedingly ignorant and naive about the feelings of foreigners.
Almost from the day it was created, Washington has had a policy of backing any tyrant who claimed to be pro-US. These "pro-US" cutthroats have received money, weapons, ammunition, almost anything they needed to suppress their own populations and attack other countries.
For decades, victims of these "pro-US" thugs tried to change the behavior of the US government. Mass protests at the gates of US embassies became routine.
The demonstrations had little effect, so the increasingly frustrated victims of the US leviathan state began to hit back against the individuals represented by that state. These acts of revenge were dubbed...

...Terrorism
The official US explanation for the "terrorism," has been, they hate us because we are good and they are bad.
Actually, I'm convinced that in most cases the attackers do not hate the people they are killing, any more than US bomber crews hated the civilian men, women and children they were killing in World War II.
If a foreign government is a threat to your family, you hurt it in whatever ways you can, including killing the people who work for it and pay taxes to support it.
The "terrorists" would love to be using aircraft carriers, cruise missiles and B-1 bombers on Washington, but they don't have them, so they use what they have.
Also, most US government facilities have been "hardened," leaving only "soft" civilian targets to hit.
In other words, like armies all through history, the "terrorists" use what they have and hit what they can.
If you happen to own a few spare Ohio-class Trident missile submarines you'd like to donate to Washington's enemies, I'm sure these people would launch a full-blown textbook war against us and lose all interest in so-called terrorism.

Part of the Solution
The ancient US policy of supporting any tyrant who claims to be pro-US has ignored the fact that each victim of these tyrants has had family and friends, and these people retaliate.
Part of the solution, therefore, is ethics. The US government must stop supporting governments that harm the innocent.
Notice that the ethical approach is also the pragmatic approach. An ethical foreign policy helps minimize the number of people who hate us and try to kill us.
Here is an updated article that appeared in my March 2002 U.S. & World Early Warning Report.

Blowback
In my opinion, the most important war in US history was the Spanish-American War in 1898. After defeating Spain, Washington set up a puppet government in the Philippines.
To install this puppet, the US Army massacred 220,000 Filipino men, women and children.1 This was the precedent for Washington's massive and routine interventions in foreign countries. Interventions prior to that had been less frequent and smaller in scale.
During the 20th century, US forces were sent into foreign conflicts no less than 188 times.2
Since 1898, every president, both democrat and republican, has ordered American troops into far corners of the globe, usually not to defend liberty, but to train, equip or provide other kinds of help to the armed forces of crooks and tyrants. These Washington-backed terrorists have included Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Manuel Noriega in Panama, President Diem of Vietnam, the Shah of Iran, Marcos in the Philippines, Batista in Cuba, Mobutu in the Congo, Chiang Kai-shek in Taiwan, General Park in Korea, Suharto and Habibie in Indonesia, and many others.
China's Chiang Kai-shek in World War II murdered twice as many innocent civilians as the Japanese,3 yet President Franklin Roosevelt backed Chiang - he sent the Flying Tigers to help him.
The Japanese retaliated by hitting Pearl Harbor.
The CIA calls that blowback.
Blowback is the root cause of the "terrorism."
President Roosevelt had also frozen Japanese assets,4 sent cruisers and destroyers to invade Japanese home waters,5 and cut off Japan's supplies of oil, iron and other raw materials.6 Yet, I have never heard of anyone asking after the Pearl Harbor attack, why do they hate us?
Roosevelt boiled Washington's foreign policy down into 15 words when he famously said of the Nicaraguan cutthroat Somoza, "he may be a son of a *****, but he's our son of a *****."
Ours. Part of our empire. One of our enforcers.

Rest of Article Here

Part Two is detailed examples of the damage the U.S. government has done in other countries.

Parts Three and Four are complete, or nearly complete, lists of all US military actions in other countries.

Part Five is a few short examples of the 19th century precedents for the US government's actions against non-US citizens during the 20th century.

Part Six is a summary and conclusions, including one of the most shocking statistics you will ever read.
Actually, if you listen to actual "man on the street" interviews of arabs, they hate us because they view us as immoral. if we do not conform to their religious beleifs, then their religion commands them to kill us. Both U.S. political parties have their talking points on why the arabs hate us, but I trust the words I have heard coming directly out of the mouths of Arabs over either of those versions.

I am sorry that doesn't fit your political agenda, but often the truth doesn't!!!
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
China's Chiang Kai-shek in World War II murdered twice as many innocent civilians as the Japanese,3 yet President Franklin Roosevelt backed Chiang - he sent the Flying Tigers to help him.
The Japanese retaliated by hitting Pearl Harbor.
Well right off the bat I can say that this is not accurate, the flying tigers were a volunteer force
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:55 AM
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Why do they hate us?

We don't care...


How do we stop this and end the war?

Kill them...
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
China's Chiang Kai-shek in World War II murdered twice as many innocent civilians as the Japanese,3 yet President Franklin Roosevelt backed Chiang - he sent the Flying Tigers to help him.
The Japanese retaliated by hitting Pearl Harbor.
ROFLMNAO... Sweet Mother that's hysterical.. (in at least two contexts and on several levels...)

For the edification of those youngsters that may read this absurdity...

The Chinese General Chiang Kai Shek did not murder more innocent civilians than the Japanese... That is absolute NONSENSE... The general was fighting a civil war wherein he was fighting the Communists insurgency and the Japanese simultaneously... Let the record reflect that Communism is a lethal cultural virus which is spread by contact and that as such , there are precisely NO INNOCENT Communists... civilian or otherwise.

But wih that said, History correctly shows us that The General inevitably lost China to the communists, who murdered more people than did the Japanese and Germans did in all of the time leading TO and during WW2; COMBINED...

The free-thinking, open-minded forces of compassion and tolerance: AKA: The Red Communists... murdered 150 million innocent people IN PEACE TIME... So it's a fairly disengenuous effort for ANY LEFTISTS, ANYWHERE to complain about the killing of innocents, when their ideology is, WITH NO CLOSE SECOND, the most lethal entity to every be realized on this earth...

ROFLMNAO... Leftists...

Last edited by Publius Infinitum; 05-09-2008 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:23 AM
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This argument inevitably follows the path of one side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitide "They hate us for what we do", and the other side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitude "They hate us for who we are".

That they are both right completely escapes them and just about everybody else, as the game of polemics MUST be played once the gauntlet is laid down. As people who think in black and white form their mutually exclusive dichotomies, they seem more intent on just battling each other than actually trying to understand much of anything at all.

Why not try thinking instead of just following the dogmatic script?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster View Post
This argument inevitably follows the path of one side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitide "They hate us for what we do", and the other side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitude "They hate us for who we are".

That they are both right completely escapes them and just about everybody else, as the game of polemics MUST be played once the gauntlet is laid down. As people who think in black and white form their mutually exclusive dichotomies, they seem more intent on just battling each other than actually trying to understand much of anything at all.

Why not try thinking instead of just following the dogmatic script?
isn't that what I was doing by beleiving what I actually heard multiple Arabs on the street say above what either party says?
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Old 05-09-2008, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster View Post
This argument inevitably follows the path of one side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitide "They hate us for what we do", and the other side digging in their heels and proclaiming the platitude "They hate us for who we are".

That they are both right completely escapes them and just about everybody else, as the game of polemics MUST be played once the gauntlet is laid down. As people who think in black and white form their mutually exclusive dichotomies, they seem more intent on just battling each other than actually trying to understand much of anything at all.

Why not try thinking instead of just following the dogmatic script?
And Enlightenment chimes in...

No greater champion of evil than that of your local relativists...

Of course, why they hate is irrelevant... anyone can hate anyone for whatever reason they choose. That they want to kill us is all that matters and for that, we shall kill them, where ever we find them... at least until such time that they learn to hate us quietly and within their own empty heads.
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