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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 04:46 AM
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I'm not a big fan of affirmative action, as I think it is mostly counterproductive to its own goals. But to claim the goals of affirmative action as racist is the worst kind of intellectual dishonesty.
Well, we have successfully taught America that the term "racism" is really only applied to the favoring of whites over another race............or to the disagreement whites may have with anything claimed by non-whites. Favoring people of color over whites is more accurately termed "justice."

We must continue to use whatever tools necessary to increase government involvement in controlling our society. The masses have proven themselves incapable of making good decisions when left alone to do so.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 04:58 AM
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Well, we have successfully taught America that the term "racism" is really only applied to the favoring of whites over another race............or to the disagreement whites may have with anything claimed by non-whites. Favoring people of color over whites is more accurately termed "justice."
No "we" haven't. And in fact no one has.
I've yet to come across anyone who is convinced that you can be committing a nonracist act by doing something to someone specifically because of race... regardless of what color you are.
All the allegations are based on the shaky "evidence" of media bias, ie what media tend to focus more on. It is reasonable to extrapolate that to "The media pay more attention to white-on-black race crimes than to black-on-white race crimes"... but it is entirely desperate grasping on the part of right-wingers to come to the conclusion that anyone is claiming "It's not racism if it's black-on-white". Black people have in fact been tried and convicted for hate crimes against whites.

I do think that "justice" is more the motive of AA proponents. I don't think it's what the result really is (in practice AA has advantaged more white women than minorities... and by extension the white men they marry- also it has provided fuel to reactionary movements and legitimization for white supremacists).
But it's not "justice" as vengeance. The proponents of AA do not believe it should be permanent. They think at some point it will equalize the standing of races and then become obsolete.
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:09 AM
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No "we" haven't. And in fact no one has.
I've yet to come across anyone who is convinced that you can be committing a nonracist act by doing something to someone specifically because of race... regardless of what color you are.
Oh. But then, I always thought affirmative action was race-based. Well there ya go, huh?

Java, we seldom agree. But I know you'll stay put and continue to vote with us no matter what. Obama!!
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:44 AM
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Java, we seldom agree. But I know you'll stay put and continue to vote with us no matter what. Obama!!
Isn't it great that the only choices seem to be affirmative action or pretending that we already live in a "color-blind" society?
Lesser evils and multiple issues... the substainers of the Two-Party System.

At least I can say Obama's the first I've heard of who seems to at least mention the fact that affirmative action is flawed... seems to want to move toward class-based.
But who knows? He isn't real clear.
And that's probably because it will be the first thing swept under the rug when he's elected.

Ah, politics in America. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:36 PM
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I never said I was for affirmative action or that it shouldn't go away. But the mere fact someone supports that policy does not mean he is a racist.
I beleive you eluded to that. Then I asked you a question, which you answered with a question. Now, Would you care to answer my question with an ACTUAL ANSWER?
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:36 PM
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What question is that?
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Old 05-12-2008, 12:42 PM
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What question is that?
Post #52

Please try to keep up!
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:01 AM
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Post 52 was mine. Try to keep up.
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Old 05-13-2008, 09:52 AM
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Post #57 then. Please answer the question!
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:43 AM
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So, according to you, supporting a racist agenda is not the same as being racist!?!
1. I never said that.
2. Should someone support a "racist agenda", i.e. Jim Crow laws, then I think one can conclude that person is very likely a racist. But, as has been mentioned numerous times, affirmative action is not a "racist agenda" designed to keep whitey down, so the question is not germaine to this thread. And if AA is indeed designed to keep whitey down, it's clearly not working very well!

Jim Crow meets the definition of racist. Affirmative action does not. Both are wrong, but only one is racist.
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