Let's Bring Back the Smith Act - Page 3

Daybreaker · #21 (**permalink**) 05-11-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBob

Fortunately, Conservatives have the upper hand in such things, we have most of the guns. How would a bunch of limp-wristed, gun hating liberal (*)(*)(*)(*) ever overthrow the US government?

Hi, there. Nice to meet you.

redphish · #22 (**permalink**) 05-12-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

This is really self-explanatory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act

The Smith Act makes it a criminal offense to:"knowingly or willfully advocate, abet, advise or teach the duty, necessity, desirability or propriety of overthrowing the Government of the United States or of any State by force or violence, or for anyone to organize any association which teaches, advises or encourages such an overthrow, or for anyone to become a member of or to affiliate with any such association."

While never specifically taken down, the act is now dead, and it should be revived.

One problem with a law like this is deciding where the line is between talking about the things we disagree with about the government and what constitutes encouraging overthrow. Another problem lies in who gets to make that determination. There is a lot of grey area and room for abuse in a law this vague.

Andaras · #23 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

I think there's a slight difference in over throwing a monarchy that can never fully represent your interests and overthrowing a democratic government that's purpose is to protect your individual liberties. If someone seriously wants to overthrow that, then they should go from a commune or something in Siberia.

If the government ever becomes so corrupt and overly powerful that it ceases to protect the individual liberties of the people, then they have every right to overthrow it. The purpose of this law was to prevent Nazis and Communists from gathering followings that they would use to overthrow the government and establish a dictatorial regime.

The US government represents the ruling capitalist class, the only 'individual liberties' it protects are the capitalists. As such I fully support the violence and forcible overthrow of the government of the United States.

TheChief · #24 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

The US government represents the ruling capitalist class,

No it doesn't

Quote:

the only 'individual liberties' it protects are the capitalists.

Everybody can buy a gun..

Quote:

As such I fully support the violence and forcible overthrow of the government of the United States.

Your right the second they get a good 20% into socialism well take em out!

frodly · #25 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andaras

The US government represents the ruling capitalist class, the only 'individual liberties' it protects are the capitalists. As such I fully support the violence and forcible overthrow of the government of the United States.

Somehow, I imagine violently overthrowing the government will lead to deaths!! Now the first right we have is life, without it all other rights are meaningless! So we will go from one system that only protects capitalists, to one that protects no one!! Awesome!!

BigRed · #26 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

This is really self-explanatory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act

The Smith Act makes it a criminal offense to:"knowingly or willfully advocate, abet, advise or teach the duty, necessity, desirability or propriety of overthrowing the Government of the United States or of any State by force or violence, or for anyone to organize any association which teaches, advises or encourages such an overthrow, or for anyone to become a member of or to affiliate with any such association."

While never specifically taken down, the act is now dead, and it should be revived.

No way.

The Decleration of Independence says when abuses get to be too much, we have to do away with the government.

The Founding Fathers did away with a government.

Again, Jefferson thought a revolution would be needed every generation or so.

I'm fine with people talking about overthrowing the government. It isn't like they'll get far with it anyways.

JavaBlack · #27 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redphish

One problem with a law like this is deciding where the line is between talking about the things we disagree with about the government and what constitutes encouraging overthrow. Another problem lies in who gets to make that determination. There is a lot of grey area and room for abuse in a law this vague.

Pretty much.
Not to mention, like someone else said... if the majority wants something it will happen... regardless of what the government's laws claim... either that or we'll regress into a dictatorship in the process of containing it.
If the majority ever actually wants a dictatorship (which itself would indicate a rather strange change in culture)... I guess we're just screwed. Either we allow it... or we create it by resisting.

Really the only purpose such a law would serve is for those in charge of the government to persecute their enemies. There really is no other use that would actually be carried out.

Ixtellor · #28 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBob

The 'government' will always try to suppress an uprising regardless of the uprisers motives.

Fortunately, Conservatives have the upper hand in such things, we have most of the guns. How would a bunch of limp-wristed, gun hating liberal (*)(*)(*)(*) ever overthrow the US government?

The same way they handed the South its a$$ in the civil war. Conservative bible thumping rednecks ALWAYS lose. (see Mississippi)

Ixtellor

Bobcat1 · #29 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 07:39 AM

But what would happen if a powerful minority managed control of the government? This occured in Nazi Germany, in Cuba, and, one could argue in Iran.

JavaBlack · #30 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobcat1

But what would happen if a powerful minority managed control of the government? This occured in Nazi Germany, in Cuba, and, one could argue in Iran.

Then the government becomes totalitarian and somewhat unstable... same as our government would if the majority truly opposed it and it refused to switch direction.

Of course in many of these situations the majority have a hard time fighting the better armed and more organized government... and when they do have a revolution, it usually leads to an equally corrupt regime and often a cycle of revolutions and coups.

Probably best to avoid that.
But in a democracy, so long as they don't screw with the electoral process, the problem usually solves itself over time.

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