Jesus the Socialist? - Page 5

White Fox · #41 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairymarx

I am quite happy for people to continue believing in the fairy story that is Jesus Christ. What I am not happy about are those warmongers/Christian fundamentalists in power who use his name as a pretext for their crucades of domination.

What I am not happy about is the fact that the Soviet Union used its atheism as an excuse to murder tens of millions of people and then go on a campaign of global domination while endangering the world with its nuclear weapons and trying to overthrow the concept of freedom.

hairymarx · #42 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 07:36 PM

White Fox, I agree with you.

White Fox · #43 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairymarx

White Fox, I agree with you.

But do you think that's a bad thing?

hairymarx · #44 (**permalink**) 05-13-2008, 08:40 PM

Of course I do

Whaler17 · #45 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairymarx

I am quite happy for people to continue believing in the fairy story that is Jesus Christ. What I am not happy about are those warmongers/Christian fundamentalists in power who use his name as a pretext for their crucades of domination.

That is the beauty of Christianity! You can choose to disbeleive if you wish! That is a God given right! Thank God that the majority religion in America is not Islam, or the same rules would certainly not apply!

Whaler17 · #46 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairymarx

I am quite happy for people to continue believing in the fairy story that is Jesus Christ. What I am not happy about are those warmongers/Christian fundamentalists in power who use his name as a pretext for their crucades of domination.

Those who get off on antagonizing Christains with little "fairy tale" comments are those who ignore many many facts about the religion! The fact that it is responsible for the vast majority of charity work worldwide!!! The fact that Christains are not commanded to do harm to or kill non beleivers as Muslims are!

There is something I just do not understand and maybe you can help me with this:

Why do people who do not beleive in Christainity feel the need to aggressively attack those who do? Can't we just disagree?

Son Of Man · #47 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whaler17

Those who get off on antagonizing Christains with little "fairy tale" comments are those who ignore many many facts about the religion! The fact that it is responsible for the vast majority of charity work worldwide!!! The fact that Christains are not commanded to do harm to or kill non beleivers as Muslims are!

There is something I just do not understand and maybe you can help me with this:

Why do people who do not beleive in Christainity feel the need to aggressively attack those who do? Can't we just disagree?

Because it appears to me that this is what many here consider entertainment, no? We don't just argue the merits of our individual philsophies, we also enjoy giving off a good insult. It strikes a primal chord that makes us feel good.
So, we impune one another's, race, gender, economic status, education levels, national origins, and yes, religious beliefs.
How else can we have a rational, civil, and thoughtful debate about the issues of the day and the differences of our political perspectives?

B L Zeebub · #48 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whaler17

Those who get off on antagonizing Christains with little "fairy tale" comments are those who ignore many many facts about the religion! The fact that it is responsible for the vast majority of charity work worldwide!!! The fact that Christains are not commanded to do harm to or kill non beleivers as Muslims are!

There is something I just do not understand and maybe you can help me with this:

Why do people who do not beleive in Christainity feel the need to aggressively attack those who do? Can't we just disagree?

Where religions is conserned to quote BB "I am an equal opportunity insulter" because the concept of any religion is an insult to my intelligence.

B-rett · #49 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairymarx

There is actually no evidence that Jesus existed and the bible is full of contradictions.

actaully there is.The Jewish historian Josephus wrote in the Jewish Antiquities, "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

This was written in the year 66 AD. Furthermore, the Gospels written 30 to 60 years after the event. That is about the same time period that other histories are written.

Andrew. · #50 (**permalink**) 05-14-2008, 03:22 PM

This explains some of the Social Law's, with the link to the full article and how it is misunderstood and misrepresented.Also a link to a good Spiritual explanation at the bottom of the post.

Quote:

1 CITIZENSHIP OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD

2 ECONOMIC FREEDOM AND SECURITY

3 THE PROBLEM OF DISTRIBUTION

4 A STABLE VALUE OF MONEY

5 JESUS, ECONOMIST

http://jahtruth.co.uk/greeneco.htm

2

ECONOMIC FREEDOM AND SECURITY

In modern times very few are economically free. Most are dependent on others for their employment and for the means of subsistence. The employers are frequently in their turn dependent on the will of those who hold the power of capitalist finance. If any be fortunate enough to possess land it is unusually encumbered by mortgage, and freedom is brought into the bondage of debt.
The Bible Laws of Economics assure freedom and independence to EVERY family. When Israel obtained the promised land, it was divided as fairly as possible so that EVERY family should receive its portion. The land was free from debt and the only tax was a tenth part of the fruit of the soil, the tithe being the inheritance of the Levites, who, being engaged in work of national importance, had no land.

The land was inherited, free of death duties, from generation to generation. It had no money value, and must not be sold for ever. The possessors of the land were regarded, not as the owners (for the land was God’s, Leviticus 25:23), but as God’s guests.

Should circumstances compel, it was permitted to sell the land, but the price should be adjusted according to the number of years to the Jubilee. The price was not for the land itself, but for its produce. In the fiftieth, the Year of Jubilee, every family must return to its inheritance. This great event must take place on the 10th day of the 7th month, the Day of Atonement, on which all the people made confession of their sins; it was a day for national repentance. Thus were closely related the economic and religious life of the nation. It was not a day of bondage, but a day of freedom, a day of new beginnings.

"And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family." (Leviticus 25:10 .)

The United States of America claim to be the land of the free, and a portion of the above quotation was inscribed on their Liberty Bell: "Proclaim liberty throughout the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." But the rest of The Law was omitted, and that is why the United States of America are just as much subject to financial and industrial troubles as any other nation which departs from God’s Law.

The Law of Inheritance was at one time deeply written in the conscience of ancient Israel. When the despotic king Ahab coveted Naboth’s vineyard, even he was unable to obtain possession against Naboth’s will. It was only when his consort Jezebel had suborned the elders of the people to accept false witness and pronounce judgment of death for treason, that the king was able to seize the land.

Others exercised their unscrupulous skill in accumulating land, for we find Isaiah (5:8 ) declaring "Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!"

The Jews who returned from Babylon met with drought, and some were hard put to it to find food for themselves, much less the corn and money tribute to Babylon. These were compelled to mortgage their lands and houses to their wealthier compatriots. When Nehemiah, the new Governor, saw the state of affairs he set up a Mortgage Corporation, fixed the rate of interest at 5 per cent, and caused placards to be posted up in public places promising security to the investors. No, I have that wrong. I am quoting from a proclamation of the New Zealand Government in the early nineteen thirties. Nehemiah said: "I was very angry when I heard their cry and these words. Then I consulted with myself, and rebuked the nobles, and the rulers, and said unto them, Ye exact usury, every one of his brother. And I set a great assembly against them. . . Then held they their peace, and had nothing to answer. . . Restore, I pray you, to them, even this day, their lands, their vineyards, and their houses, also the hundredth part of the money and the corn, and the wine, and the oil, that ye exact of them. Then said they, We will restore them, and will require nothing of them; so will we do as thou sayest."

A rich young man came to Jesus claiming that he had kept The Laws of Moses from his youth up; but Jesus put His finger on the vital spot. How did this man’s family accumulate such great possessions? Let him sell all, and give to the poor.

Thus in Israel, while every family was assured of a sufficient living, no man could lawfully accumulate large holdings at the expense of others.

The clans of Scotland followed the patriarchal system of the Old Testament/Covenant. Every crofter had his holding. The yeomen of England were likewise free and independent by virtue of their land. The industrial revolution and the enclosure of land changed all this, creating a great landless labouring class at the mercy of others for their precarious and ill-paid jobs.

Since then, conditions of labour and rates of pay have been improved by legislation, but modern economics are now dominated by the machine and mass production. Money and the machine, which should be our beneficent servants, have become our ruthless masters.

Many say that the old Laws of Israel, with their rural patriarchal conditions, are out of date. Others, with truer visions, see in them our salvation. The prophet of old foresaw that in the new age every man would dwell under his own vine and fig tree. Is it possible to do away with machines, put every man back on the land, and return to peasant life? Perhaps not, but it IS possible to decentralise industry, giving each worker sufficient land to occupy his increasing leisure. It IS possible to place more and more on small holdings with profit to themselves and to the community. It IS possible to foster a renewed love of and respect for the land, to breed a race of husbandmen.

God warned of this going away from His Divine Laws, Economics and the land and the ensuing envy, competition, strife, chaos and wars it would create and gave the solution to these ills when He said: "Beat your swords into plough-shares and your spears into pruning-hooks and learn war (competition) no more." (Isaiah 2:4 & Micah 4:3-5). In other words return to the Divine Laws, Economics and the land of (with) plenty. - JAH.

In Tahiti, at the age of sixteen, a young man is allotted a plot of land, and he is free to marry. The land is his until he dies, when it reverts to the Crown. True, the Tahitians are a simple community, but they are free, and they have no national debt.

If we are to retain the (questionable) blessings of machine power (and the pollution created by them), the system of finance capitalism with debt and interest must be abolished. In building a new system we must bear in mind the foundation principle of God’s Law — that every person is entitled to a share in the fruits of the soil. It is not possible for every man to possess land and to work entirely on it, but every secondary industry also depends upon the land for its raw materials and the workers for their food from it. Every worker contributes to the wealth of the nation. Those who do not actually produce add their services to the common pool.

The sum total of national constructive effort is the true basis of the issue of money, whether in the form of currency or of credit. If the total productive power of the nation can be computed and the national income distributed in fair proportion to every person, irrespective of the nature of the employment, the result would be the same as giving everybody a share in the land itself.

Thus would the first principle of Divine Economic Law be obeyed — economic freedom and security for ALL. (No deprivation and therefore no reason to steal or commit crime in order to survive - JAH). It is not God’s Law that is out of step with mankind, but mankind that is drastically and criminally out of step with God and His Laws (James 4).

http://jahtruth.co.uk/marguide.htm Spiritual

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