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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:25 AM
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Workers are expendible and replaceable, the owner/boss/financee, is not.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by eleanoraquitaine View Post
We didn't negotiate with Japan and Germany. We forced their total surrender and then told them how to get their act straight. The same is necessary here. There is as much point to negotiating with the muslims as hitler, less reason. They aren't going to reform their evil religion because we kiss their ass but because we kick their ass.
Kennedy met with Kruschev, "Bay of Pigs" & almost WWIII because Kruschev believed Kennedy to be weak.
Nixon "opened up talks with China", they now own us.
Reagan met with Gorbachev, "& the wall come tumbling" down.
Now Obama wants to meet with "an'arm'n'a'leg'i'wanna'jihad" withoiut pre-conditions? Yeah, that'll work well. :sarcasm:
Note: Only a conservative Republican POTUS had the desired results of a meeting with an enemy of the US.

Last edited by LoneStarProud; 05-21-2008 at 08:29 AM.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Daybreaker View Post
Case in point -- KMAUCSFMB, aren't you the one that's being impossible to negotiate with?

Even terrorists at least give a list of demands, in exchange for which they will theoretically stop terrorizing. You're pretty much just declaring all-out war on everybody, with no option for retreat or surrender. Leaving apart any possible strategic unsoundness inherent in such a plan, shouldn't you maybe consider the likelihood, however slim, that maybe you're part of the problem?
My war is with Socialists in all of their various 'isms.'

Notice how the socialist demands that they represent "EVERYBODY?"

That's pretty typical. Also, lacking a cogent point, but wanting to appear 'in the fight' the socialist is drawn towards creating their own reality, which they use to build an argument that doesn't exist in the real world. In this case, that alternative reality is that this socialist is speaking for EVERYBODY and in doing so demanding that those everybody opposses is working an unsound plan that just isn't reasonable, so they must have a 'problem.' This is an insinuation that the oppossing point of view is a result of a psychological malody, some form of psychosis. Which is a 'science' which has served the socialist very well. In the Soviet Union, it was an automatic, the state declared political dissidents to be suffering one of any of a half a dozen forms of psychosis. The idea was pretty simple, if ou oppose us, you're sick in the head. It is classic socialist stuff. It goes way back to the 18th century left-thinkers, who began all of the 'social science crap. They're weak arguments, offered by weak minds. Not sick minds, just those that refuse to do the tough intellectual lifting required to get beyond socialism.

Last edited by KMAUCSFMB; 05-21-2008 at 08:31 AM.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LoneStarProud View Post
Kennedy met with Kruschev, "Bay of Pigs" & almost WWIII because Kruschev believed Kennedy to be weak.
Nixon "opened up talks with China", they now own us.
Reagan met with Gorbachev, "& the wall come tumbling" down.
Now Obama wants to meet with "an'arm'n'a'leg'i'wanna'jihad" withoiut pre-conditions? Yeah, that'll work well. :sarcasm:
Note: Only a conservative Republican POTUS had the desired results of a meeting with an enemy of the US.
If you see partisanship as the reason for the success/failure of each of these instances... you aren't looking hard enough.

The problem is that the conservatives now are not even willing to meet with leaders they don't like... so it doesn't matter if they'd do a better job- because they aren't going to do it anyway!
BTW China doesn't actually own us.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:55 AM
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In global politics some people your able to have dialog with, others make it impossible. But negotiations are only possible when both sides are willing to give. When somone's first position is live like me, worship like me or I'll kill you and your family, it leaves very little room for negotiations.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
In global politics some people your able to have dialog with, others make it impossible. But negotiations are only possible when both sides are willing to give. When somone's first position is live like me, worship like me or I'll kill you and your family, it leaves very little room for negotiations.
And that is rarely the actual position of the leaders of states, at least in relation to foreign powers.
In this case, we are the ones who decide "We're not even going to talk to you."

No matter what the actual policy, communication is a necessary part. No good can come from shutting it off.
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack View Post
And that is rarely the actual position of the leaders of states, at least in relation to foreign powers.
In this case, we are the ones who decide "We're not even going to talk to you."

No matter what the actual policy, communication is a necessary part. No good can come from shutting it off.
What is there to gain by talking to someone who will not concede anything?
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
What is there to gain by talking to someone who will not concede anything?
Making a clear point.
Setting exact expectations and exact consequences.
Figuring out more about what it is the person who "isn't conceding" actually is looking for.
Showing other countries and people within the country in question that we actually speak first before shooting.


What is to be gained from not talking?
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Htown-Boliviano View Post
I think that a change must come from a Muslim. If you want things to change you need to put moderate Muslims in power or support moderate Muslims especially many charities and political organizations run by Muslim-Americans. It is no small secret that the most of the Muslim live within this country are moderate because this country was founded on free expression and freedom of religion, no one here tries to oppress them. People and the culture of this country are a direct reflection of this and many constitutional amendments. I think the U.S. can become a place where moderate Muslim can exchange ideas and make positive change in the Islamic world.
Just as a point of interest: In the past, every Muslim who has either criticized or attempted to reform Islam has been labelled an apostate and efforts have been made to kill the individual. Unlike other religions, the Koran has certain mechanisms in place to prevent tampering with God's Truth.
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Old 05-21-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
Workers are expendible and replaceable, the owner/boss/financee, is not.
Why not? World suddenly run out of bossy rich people?
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