How Can Progressives Negotiate with Islamists? - Page 12

Daybreaker · #**111** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMAUCSFMB

My war is with Socialists in all of their various 'isms.'

Notice how the socialist demands that they represent "EVERYBODY?"

That's pretty typical. Also, lacking a cogent point, but wanting to appear 'in the fight' the socialist is drawn towards creating their own reality, which they use to build an argument that doesn't exist in the real world. In this case, that alternative reality is that this socialist is speaking for EVERYBODY and in doing so demanding that those everybody opposses is working an unsound plan that just isn't reasonable, so they must have a 'problem.' This is an insinuation that the oppossing point of view is a result of a psychological malody, some form of psychosis. Which is a 'science' which has served the socialist very well. In the Soviet Union, it was an automatic, the state declared political dissidents to be suffering one of any of a half a dozen forms of psychosis. The idea was pretty simple, if ou oppose us, you're sick in the head. It is classic socialist stuff. It goes way back to the 18th century left-thinkers, who began all of the 'social science crap. They're weak arguments, offered by weak minds. Not sick minds, just those that refuse to do the tough intellectual lifting required to get beyond socialism.

In my defense, you did threaten to kill me.

After all, I could be described as a socialist. I think you just accused me of being one in the above thread, too. We've established, then, that you believe that your only way of dealing with me is to kill me? You are "at war" with me? I can't be negotiated with? I can't be reasoned with? I'll just accuse you of being crazy and you won't get to kill me, so you have to kill me?

Yeah, you're sane. Picture of mental health, there. Are you sure you aren't just engaged in a self-fulfilling prophecy? "If I declare war on everyone, the socialists will call me insane, thus proving my point!" Well done!

Just out of curiousity, what "tough intellectual lifting" did you do that got you to where you are?

Anikdote · #**112** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Why not? World suddenly run out of bossy rich people?

Because green aliens from Uranus have issued a galaxy wide ban on entrepreneurs.

....ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

Daybreaker · #**113** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anikdote

Because green aliens from Uranus have issued a galaxy wide ban on entrepreneurs.

....ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

By "why not" I meant, "Why can't bosses/owners/financeers be replaced?" You said that they couldn't be, but that workers could be. Why can't bosses be replaced?

Sorry to be so hard to follow.

Anikdote · #**114** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:28 PM

Because typically the boss/leader/owner has skills beyond that of his employees, making it possible for him to run the business, delegate duties and provide a financial backbone for the organization. Most people are not educated/willing to work hard enough to reach this position. Hence why most workers can be easily replaced by another worker, where as the head honcho has skills that aren't readily present in the job seeker market.

I thought this line would have been easily drawn. I followed fine, but I was assuming you knew the answer and were trying to make some kind of point with your inquiry.

Daybreaker · #**115** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:39 PM

The line is easily drawn, yep. Even a kid could do it.

But I have to disagree. There's no reason to believe that bosses are more skilled than laborers. In a capitalist society, all you know is that bosses are richer than labor. And if you're one of those people that automatically assumes that rich people are smarter than poor people, I guess that line would make sense.

But I've known too many rich people and too many poor people to think that rich people are better. Same with bosses and workers. Without the bosses, the workers do just fine (better, even). Without the workers, the bosses have nothing, except a lot of work to do -- and it usually turns out, they can't do it.

Anikdote · #**116** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreaker

But I have to disagree. There's no reason to believe that bosses are more skilled than laborers. In a capitalist society, all you know is that bosses are richer than labor. And if you're one of those people that automatically assumes that rich people are smarter than poor people, I guess that line would make sense.

Well I believe that it's true because it is. At least according to the US Dept Of Commerce. Maybe smarter isn't the best word, that's why i didn't use it, more educated is what I said.

Quote:

But I've known too many rich people and too many poor people to think that rich people are better.

No one said better, just more limited in their number.

Quote:

Same with bosses and workers. Without the bosses, the workers do just fine (better, even). Without the workers, the bosses have nothing, except a lot of work to do -- and it usually turns out, they can't do it.

The problem with your argument is this:

If there is no boss... there is no job. So the worker that you admire so much, wouldn't be a worker... he'd be unemployed.

justabubba · #**117** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daybreaker

The line is easily drawn, yep. Even a kid could do it.

But I have to disagree. There's no reason to believe that bosses are more skilled than laborers. In a capitalist society, all you know is that bosses are richer than labor. And if you're one of those people that automatically assumes that rich people are smarter than poor people, I guess that line would make sense.

But I've known too many rich people and too many poor people to think that rich people are better. Same with bosses and workers. Without the bosses, the workers do just fine (better, even). Without the workers, the bosses have nothing, except a lot of work to do -- and it usually turns out, they can't do it.

all of a sudden, it appears daybreaker's question was not so simple:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anikdote

Because green aliens from Uranus have issued a galaxy wide ban on entrepreneurs.

....ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

gotta love it ...
thanks for the laugh ani

Lackluster · #**118** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 01:39 PM

Dare I mention that I own my own business, but see no need to run it in an authoritarian fashion?

Nah, probably not.

it's probably too radical an idea to see employes as living, breathing human beings.

Oh, and as to that other subtext, I might add that I never trust aliens from any of the gas giants.

Anikdote · #**119** (**permalink**) 05-21-2008, 02:02 PM

I don't think employees are worthless, but to say they are as valuable as their employer is erroneous.

0000 · #**120** (**permalink**) 05-25-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catzmeow

Mohammed had sex with a 9-year-old girl.

this isnt in contradiction to the muslim religion.

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