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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 05:32 AM
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By my count, at least in the political forum most of those posting are socialists, which is what the perspective illustrated by this testimony.
p.s. Suppressing free speech is a COMMON socialist tactic. I often find, and have taught my children, that when we point our finger at someone else, at least 3 of our fingers are pointing back at us. Perhaps that's why Jesus suggested to his followers that they remove the tree from their eye before removing the speck from someone else's.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 07:41 AM
LoneStarProud LoneStarProud is offline
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My political beliefs have not changed, my preferred political party changed. I believe in the constitution, the dems have abused that till it's almost unrecognizable. In latter years, the republicans have taken up with the dims concept of the constitution. The judicialry makes laws, the tax system is so convoluted that even the people that wrote it over the years don't understand it, soveringty is laughable (UN), INS is out of whack.
No more "private home/land ownership" if Wal Mart needs a new drivaway that happens to gp through your property, oh well. Don't want your unborn baby, have it killed Etc., etc.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:14 PM
Danik Danik is offline
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Gosh, how proud I am to be part of an America where teachers can be FIRED for expressing an opinion to their classes.

My daughter is 14 and my son is 10. We often talk about politics. My daughter told me this morning that her favorite class right now is her civics class, because they have one class a week called "Mr. Cartwright's Neighborhood" where they can ask him anything politically oriented, and he will answer it, with his actual opinion. They freaking LOVE IT because they think he is one of the few teachers at their school who is "real" with them.

If more parents would do their own jobs, including having candid conversations on every topic from sex to prayer in school with their kids, instead of abdicating this responsibility to the schools, perhaps kids would be less starved for real conversations with adults.

If an adult is humiliating or demeaning a child in class because of a particular view, that's one thing. But, the method used by many teachers is similar to the Socratic method in that it teaches kids to think FOR THEMSELVES.

God forbid we should have an America where people learn to THINK at school and express opinions.

p.s. Her teacher is a conservative. His views have lead to many interesting family discussions around the dinner table at my house.
It's this type of attitude that I think more parents need to have. I also enjoyed teachers of this nature. There are so many people out there who don't want to take any responsibility, including their own kids. Personally I think 99.9% of the parents who don't have a child graduate from high school probably had a large part in letting that happen. School is not a day care. School should be an environment where an individual learns to develop socially and intellectually. That learning experience should not stop when they come home from school.

On topic:

I developed my beliefs mainly because learning came easy to me. I developed a hard work ethic mainly through my parents, and to this day I think the greatest thing anyone could do is take control of their own lives and empower themselves to handle just about anything life throws at them. I've also become extremely critical of the idea that providing major support for those less fortunate leads to a good outcome. My brother was taken out of private school and sent to the local public school in my area because he was doing poorly. The stories he would come home with are ridiculous, and he said he couldn't believe the lack of discipline and effort put into class. Students would regularly disrupt the teacher, they wouldn't do their work, etc. This was a brand new school, and my State and County is very liberal, especially given the large number of minorities in my county. Hearing and seeing things of that nature reinforced my belief that the only true outcome is allowing someone to fail and discovering success on their own. Parents should be responsible for encouraging their kids to succeed, and I think this country is failing heavily in that category. I don't see how any amount of government is going to change that.

Overall I've seen too much of the deterioration of morals within family and friends over my lifetime. At my college the number of people who would strictly use others as objects for social status, sex, drugs, etc really makes me doubt the majority of people in general. There are also so many people who just try to get by, that I cannot possibly think that a more socialized society would work in this country. I think part of the reason this country is not as able to become more socialized with less consequences is mainly because of the attitude among most of its people today. Too many people think they are entitled to everything under the sun, and their idea of hard work, and an educated, intelligent individual is comical. Although I'm probably too cynical in my view of the majority of people, I've come to be much less sympathetic with liberal ideals when I hardly consider things like the Housing Crisis, Gas Prices, and other major topics today as something that couldn't have been foreseen or avoided entirely through intelligent thinking.

Last edited by Danik; 05-21-2008 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 05-22-2008, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
Gosh, how proud I am to be part of an America where teachers can be FIRED for expressing an opinion to their classes.

My daughter is 14 and my son is 10. We often talk about politics. My daughter told me this morning that her favorite class right now is her civics class, because they have one class a week called "Mr. Cartwright's Neighborhood" where they can ask him anything politically oriented, and he will answer it, with his actual opinion. They freaking LOVE IT because they think he is one of the few teachers at their school who is "real" with them.

If more parents would do their own jobs, including having candid conversations on every topic from sex to prayer in school with their kids, instead of abdicating this responsibility to the schools, perhaps kids would be less starved for real conversations with adults.

If an adult is humiliating or demeaning a child in class because of a particular view, that's one thing. But, the method used by many teachers is similar to the Socratic method in that it teaches kids to think FOR THEMSELVES.

God forbid we should have an America where people learn to THINK at school and express opinions.

p.s. Her teacher is a conservative. His views have lead to many interesting family discussions around the dinner table at my house.
As a teacher in the field of social studies, I prefer that personal ideologies are unknown to the pupils. If asked what you believe and you respond, you will then be asked why, at which point you are essentially propagandizing why your belief is true/better/thought out etc, and you might be asked to explain why you disagree with the other sides viewpoint, where once again you are essentially propagandizing.

I have told my students this year and in years past that on the last day of school we can discuss my own views, but prior to that I think it is a bad idea. I don't see the gain. Yes it is good to discuss issues, but to discuss both sides equally.
1) Students are impressionalbe. My repoirt is so good with the students I imagine I could convince large numbers into all kinds of ideas. I could most certainly create a lot of aethists.
2) If the kids are die hard partisans, and you express a different view, they are likely to begin ignoring you or being mistrustful in other realms of discussion. Or you will be in a situation where you are contradiciting everything their parents taught them, and this is a BAD thing. d

I love to talk economics and politics with my students, but I prefer to argue both sides or play devils advocate.

Furthermore, while this particular teacher might pull off reavealing personal bias in a "good" way, other teachers can not or will not. For example in the news today, a principle is going to resign because the school lawyers said he has to allow a gay and lesbian club. Is that they guy you want discussing civics with your children? Or what about a communist?

There are a lot of partisan and ignorant teachers. I prefer they keep their politics off the minds of impressionable children.

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Old 05-23-2008, 04:25 PM
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I never grew up in a political family. Coming from the Philippines I became a US citizen at 17 but never participated in elections. In the B. Clinton years I began to realize that morals and being politically educated was necessary to have a voice in this country. Clinton put me and this country to shame with his scandal and I decided then that I was a Republican and has been since. The Democrats can go on about building a better economy and environment and their low moral standards, but at the end of the day we all know the facts. I voted for Bush twice, yes, he made his fair of mistakes, not on his own I remind you, everyone seems to blame Bush for everything even the ethenol crap that left millions hungry (which was the democrats big idea of saving the environment) and everything else. Congress is much to blame for what is wrong with the country now. But voting for Obama this election will worsen the problem. Taxes will increase, healthcare will be in chaos, Global warming will take precedent over the economy, Iraq will be a failure and abortion will be easier to aquire without perental consent and gay marriages (which is not a big issue for me) will be legalized. Although I would rather them use a different term than the word "marriage", which is a sacrament between a man and a woman. Anyways, if democrats think Bush was a bad president just wait till Obama sits with our enemies without pre conditions and thinks he is being noble and a peacemaker. Just to prove to the world that America is capable of making negotiations with terrorists and prevail. It is ridiculous and very naive to care what other countries think of us. Honestly, non americans hate us because they are jelous, that is the bottom line. If Obama starts acting like Jimmy Carter, we will be mocked and laughed at by every anti american country out there. I guess if that is what you want then Obama is your guy.... please feel free to change my mind on being a Republican, I dare you to....
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Old 05-25-2008, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chesby05 View Post
So, how did you develop your political beliefs?
by watching campaign ads, and then letting other people interpret them for me
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