What do you not like about Obama's policies? - Page 26

Raharu Haruha · #**251** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obama2008

you have no educated yourself.

Priceless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obama2008

I'm not looking for someone to agree, I'm looking for someone who has enough common sense to know the policies of Obama and be able to actualy discuss that...his policies, rather than baseless claims like "he is a socialist"

My common sense tells me other wise. You've kissed this guy's ass twice now. I don't think you're looking for someone who has common sense, I think you're looking for someone with common stupidity.

White Fox · #**252** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 07:59 PM

Let's go with the economy, Raharu

From barackobama.com

Quote:

Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise: While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression.

Tax Cuts for Wealthy Instead of Middle Class: The Bush tax cuts give those who earn over $1 million dollars a tax cut nearly 160 times greater than that received by middle-income Americans. At the same time, this administration has refused to tackle health care, education and housing in a manner that benefits the middle class.
Barack Obama's Plan
Provide Middle Class Americans Tax Relief

Obama will cut income taxes by $1,000 for working families to offset the payroll tax they pay.

* Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Obama will restore fairness(his definition of what is "fair" is socialist because it seeks to achieve absolute economic equality by placing the burden on the rich) to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they need. Obama will create a new "Making Work Pay" tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. The "Making Work Pay" tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans.
* Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than five minutes. Obama will ensure that the IRS uses the information it already gets from banks and employers to give taxpayers the option of pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return. Experts estimate that the Obama proposal will save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.(that's a good idea. We need to cut bureaucracy)

Trade

Obama believes that trade with foreign nations should strengthen the American economy and create more American jobs. He will stand firm against agreements that undermine our economic security.

* Fight for Fair Trade: Obama will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. (that is protectionism, and it raises prices for consumers around the world. It is a socialist desire in its essence) He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world (socialist again) and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement (anti-free trade is a bad thing for economic reasons. It raises prices for Americans and those abroad)that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports. (He has no right to do that)
* Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers. (Those protectionist policies will raise prices for Americans)
* Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs. (More government bureaucracy, more government programs, more taxes to fund it.)

Technology, Innovation and Creating Jobs

Obama will encourage the deployment of the most modern communications infrastructure to reduce the costs of health care, help solve our energy crisis, create new jobs, and fuel our economic growth.

* Support Job Creation: Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research and make the research and development tax credit permanent to help create high-paying, secure jobs. Obama will also make long-term investments in education, training, and workforce development so that Americans can leverage our strengths - our ingenuity and entrepreneurialism - to create new high-wage jobs and prosper in a world economy. (This is a good policy at heart, but with his other proposals for massive government spending, it would overload the government)
* Invest in U.S. Manufacturing: The Obama comprehensive energy independence and climate change plan will invest in America's highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world. Obama will also provide assistance to the domestic auto industry to ensure that new fuel-efficient vehicles are built by American workers. Protectionism, protectionism, protectionism...)
* Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies: The Obama plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training, such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs. Obama will also create an energy-focused youth jobs program to invest in disconnected and disadvantaged youth. (Interventionalism, interventionalism, interventionalism...)
* Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: The Obama plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own. Obama will also extend the Production Tax Credit, a credit used successfully by American farmers and investors to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs. (I'm starting to feel a bit sick seeing all of these FDRish government programs to increase American jobs. We might as well pay them to dig holes and then fill them up again.)
* Deploy Next-Generation Broadband: Obama believes we can get broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation's wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation facilities, technologies and applications, and new tax and loan incentives.(It would appear that the free market does not need taxpayers dollars to do this)
* Protect the Openness of the Internet: Obama supports the basic principle that network providers should not be allowed to charge fees to privilege the content or applications of some web sites and Internet applications over others. This principle will ensure that the new competitors, especially small or nonprofit speakers, have the same opportunity as big companies to innovate and reach large audiences. (If they want to charge you, whose to say they can't?)
* Invest in Rural Areas: Obama will invest in rural small businesses and fight to expand high-speed Internet access. He will improve rural schools and attract more doctors to rural areas. (eughck, agrarian/rural protectionism. What should we waste our money on next, I wonder?)

White Fox · #**253** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:00 PM

And continued, still the economy

Quote:

Labor

Obama will strengthen the ability of workers to organize unions. He will fight for passage of the Employee Free Choice Act. Obama will ensure that his labor appointees support workers' rights and will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers. (IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL FOR THE PRESIDENT TO DO THAT!!!)Obama will also increase the minimum wage and index it to inflation to ensure it rises every year.(I'm against minimum wage on principle because it creates unemployment and restricts employers and employees. If someone wants to work for a wage that someone finds unacceptable, then who's to say that they can't work?)

* Ensure Freedom to Unionize: Obama believes that workers should have the freedom to choose whether to join a union without harassment or intimidation from their employers. Obama cosponsored and is strong advocate for the Employee Free Choice Act, a bipartisan effort to assure that workers can exercise their right to organize. He will continue to fight for EFCA's passage and sign it into law. (Workers do not have a right to monopolize their labor. Other than that, they are free to work together.)
* Fight Attacks on Workers' Right to Organize: Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor of legislation to overturn the NLRB's "Kentucky River" decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction, and professional workers as "supervisors" who are not protected by federal labor laws. (same as above)
* Protect Striking Workers: Obama supports the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. He will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods. (You strike, you're fired. NEXT!)
* Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.(see above, but it's your wage this time)

Protect Homeownership and Crack Down on Mortgage Fraud

Obama will crack down on fraudulent brokers and lenders. He will also make sure homebuyers have honest and complete information about their mortgage options, and he will give a tax credit to all middle-class homeowners.

* Create a Universal Mortgage Credit: Obama will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide homeowners who do not itemize tax relief. This credit will provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year. (Is that really what the government should be doing with FIVE BILLION dollars?)
* Ensure More Accountability in the Subprime Mortgage Industry: Obama has been closely monitoring the subprime mortgage situation for years, and introduced comprehensive legislation over a year ago to fight mortgage fraud and protect consumers against abusive lending practices. Obama's STOP FRAUD Act provides the first federal definition of mortgage fraud, increases funding for federal and state law enforcement programs, creates new criminal penalties for mortgage professionals found guilty of fraud, and requires industry insiders to report suspicious activity.(Good, good, good)
* Mandate Accurate Loan Disclosure: Obama will create a Homeowner Obligation Made Explicit (HOME) score, which will provide potential borrowers with a simplified, standardized borrower metric (similar to APR) for home mortgages. The HOME score will allow individuals to easily compare various mortgage products and understand the full cost of the loan.(How much?)
* Create Fund to Help Homeowners Avoid Foreclosures: Obama will create a fund to help people refinance their mortgages and provide comprehensive supports to innocent homeowners. The fund will be partially paid for by Obama's increased penalties on lenders who act irresponsibly and commit fraud.(Hmmm.... maybe)
* Close Bankruptcy Loophole for Mortgage Companies: Obama will work to eliminate the provision that prevents bankruptcy courts from modifying an individual's mortgage payments. Obama believes that the subprime mortgage industry, which has engaged in dangerous and sometimes unscrupulous business practices, should not be shielded by outdated federal law.(sounds good)

Address Predatory Credit Card Practices

Obama will establish a five-star rating system so that every consumer knows the risk involved in every credit card. He also will establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights to stop credit card companies from exploiting consumers with unfair practices.

* Create a Credit Card Rating System to Improve Disclosure: Obama will create a credit card rating system, modeled on five-star systems used for other consumer products, to provide consumers an easily identifiable ranking of credit cards, based on the card's features. Credit card companies will be required to display the rating on all application and contract materials, enabling consumers to quickly understand all of the major provisions of a credit card without having to rely exclusively on fine print in lengthy documents.
* Establish a Credit Card Bill of Rights to Protect Consumers: Obama will create a Credit Card Bill of Rights to protect consumers. The Obama plan will:
o Ban Unilateral Changes
o Apply Interest Rate Increases Only to Future Debt
o Prohibit Interest on Fees
o Prohibit "Universal Defaults"
o Require Prompt and Fair Crediting of Cardholder Payments

(All of this credit card stuff is ridiculous, NEXT!)

Reform Bankruptcy Laws

Obama will reform our bankruptcy laws to protect working people, ban executive bonuses for bankrupt companies, and require disclosure of all pension investments.

* Cap Outlandish Interest Rates on Payday Loans and Improve Disclosure: Obama supports extending a 36 percent interest cap to all Americans. Obama will require lenders to provide clear and simplified information about loan fees, payments and penalties, which is why he'll require lenders to provide this information during the application process. (consumers can ask for this, if they're smart. And if they are lied to, they can sue. There is no need for government intervention)
* Encourage Responsible Lending Institutions to Make Small Consumer Loans: Obama will encourage banks, credit unions and Community Development Financial Institutions to provide affordable short-term and small-dollar loans and to drive unscrupulous lenders out of business. (Bad loans are the reason that the economy is faltering, and while some may want to blame Bush, it is policies like this that are the only thing that could possibly make it worse)
* Reform Bankruptcy Laws to Protect Families Facing a Medical Crisis: Obama will create an exemption in bankruptcy law for individuals who can prove they filed for bankruptcy because of medical expenses. This exemption will create a process that forgives the debt and lets the individuals get back on their feet. (If they're physically unable to work, then I agree. But I don't think that's exactly what he had in mind)

White Fox · #**254** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:01 PM

Continued again

Quote:

Work/Family Balance

Obama will double funding for after-school programs, expand the Family Medical Leave Act, provide low-income families with a refundable tax credit to help with their child-care expenses, and encourage flexible work schedules.

* Expand the Family and Medical Leave Act: The FMLA covers only certain employees of employers with 50 or more employees. Obama will expand it to cover businesses with 25 or more employees. He will expand the FMLA to cover more purposes as well, including allowing workers to take leave for elder care needs; allowing parents up to 24 hours of leave each year to participate in their children's academic activities; and expanding FMLA to cover leave for employees to address domestic violence.
* Encourage States to Adopt Paid Leave: As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50 states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.
* Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve a million more children. Obama will include measures to maximize performance and effectiveness across grantees nationwide.
* Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit: The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit provides too little relief to families that struggle to afford child care expenses. Obama will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for their child care expenses.
* Protect Against Caregiver Discrimination: Workers with family obligations often are discriminated against in the workplace. Obama will enforce the recently-enacted Equal Employment Opportunity Commission guidelines on caregiver discrimination.
* Expand Flexible Work Arrangements: Obama will create a program to inform businesses about the benefits of flexible work schedules; help businesses create flexible work opportunities; and increase federal incentives for telecommuting. Obama will also make the federal government a model employer in terms of adopting flexible work schedules and permitting employees to request flexible arrangements.

(Intervention, after intervention, after intervention, after intervention, after intervention............)

Raharu Haruha · #**255** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

Let's go with the economy, Raharu

From barackobama.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

And continued, still the economy

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

Continued again

Not only are those riddled with over the top government spending, and not only will most of those NOT be successful, but he probably wont even deliver on half of those.

Good post. Too bad I've pepped you recently.

G_Haile12 · #**256** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:35 PM

Conservatives are completely unpatriotic how I see it, they are nothing but transnational elites who will gladly sell out jobs to foreigners to get more money for themselves, capitalism is the height of anti-patriotism. Any true patriotic cares equally about the welfare of all his fellow countrymen.

White Fox · #**257** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Haile12

Conservatives are completely unpatriotic how I see it, they are nothing but transnational elites who will gladly sell out jobs to foreigners to get more money for themselves, capitalism is the height of anti-patriotism. Any true patriotic cares equally about the welfare of all his fellow countrymen.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Was that guy unpatriotic? It seems to me that he didn't want people to get government handouts. And if you truly care about someone, you don't give them handouts, rather, you teach them how to work.

Getting people to do jobs for less money benefits Americans with cheaper products and services. If this was not economically viable, then it would not happen.

If you truly want people to stand together in solidarity as a nation where everyone is cared for under the state, then I would just like to remind you that that is the main tenant of National Socialism.

-

G_Haile12 · #**258** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Was that guy unpatriotic? It seems to me that he didn't want people to get government handouts. And if you truly care about someone, you don't give them handouts, rather, you teach them how to work.

Getting people to do jobs for less money benefits Americans with cheaper products and services. If this was not economically viable, then it would not happen.

If you truly want people to stand together in solidarity as a nation where everyone is cared for under the state, then I would just like to remind you that that is the main tenant of National Socialism.

-

American capitalists don't care about their countrymen, they only care for profit. Capitalism is anti-patriotic, just look at America today, trillions in foreign debt, outsourcing to cheap foreign labor etc. Anyone who supports capitalism is no patriot.

White Fox · #**259** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G_Haile12

American capitalists don't care about their countrymen, they only care for profit. Capitalism is anti-patriotic, just look at America today, trillions in foreign debt, outsourcing to cheap foreign labor etc. Anyone who supports capitalism is no patriot.

I think you are not making a distinction between nationalism and patriotism.

Patriotism, from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism

denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin patria < Greek patris, πατρίς), by individuals and groups. The 'fatherland' (or 'motherland') can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation and/or a nation-state. Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation. Patriotism is closely associated with nationalism, and the terms are often used synonymously. Strictly speaking, nationalism is an ideology - but it often promotes patriotic attitudes as desirable and appropriate. (Both nationalist political movements, and patriotic expression, may, yet need not, be negative towards other people's 'fatherland').

Nationalism is what causes people to support everyone in their nation. Patriotism is the belief that the principles behind your nation are good and something to be proud about. As a conservative, I am strongly patriotic because I believe in the principles behind our country's founding. Patriotism has nothing to do with the welfare of every individual in a nation. That would be national socialism, an ideology that I find despicable.

Either way, you are hijacking this thread. Either stay on topic or take this argument somewhere else.

G_Haile12 · #**260** (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

I think you are not making a distinction between nationalism and patriotism.

Patriotism, from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotism

denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin patria < Greek patris, πατρίς), by individuals and groups. The 'fatherland' (or 'motherland') can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation and/or a nation-state. Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation. Patriotism is closely associated with nationalism, and the terms are often used synonymously. Strictly speaking, nationalism is an ideology - but it often promotes patriotic attitudes as desirable and appropriate. (Both nationalist political movements, and patriotic expression, may, yet need not, be negative towards other people's 'fatherland').

Nationalism is what causes people to support everyone in their nation. Patriotism is the belief that the principles behind your nation are good and something to be proud about. As a conservative, I am strongly patriotic because I believe in the principles behind our country's founding. Patriotism has nothing to do with the welfare of every individual in a nation. That would be national socialism, an ideology that I find despicable.

Either way, you are hijacking this thread. Either stay on topic or take this argument somewhere else.

Does a 'principle' ensure everyone has no food, shelter? Do 'principles' ensure everyone lives comfortably? A nation is the people who make it up, and if you can't treat treat every citizen equally then you are an individualist, not a patriot.

A nation is when a community has a shared sense of community and determination, which is why capitalism always hurts the nation by promoting injustice and inequality.

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