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Old 05-29-2008, 12:48 PM
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How to define heroism? It's the development of immeasurable love, (the fervent wish that all beings have happiness and its causes), compassion (the fervent wish that all beings be free of suffering and its causes), limitless joy (the enjoyment of other beings freedom from suffering and good fortune) and equanimity (the equal kind regard for all beings--friend, enemy or stranger)

I know some human beings who have these qualities, and they are my personal heroes.


I think heroism depends on the motivation. A jihadist or suicide bomber with motivation for his own personal happiness in heaven (with all those virgins) is not a hero.

The Buddhist monk who self-immolated during the Vietnam war was a hero. His motivation was to benefit others--not himself.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
You are part of the attitude that alienated all of our soldiers who returned home from the Vietnam war!
Ridiculous. Do you think it's because I flunked Fanatical Flag Waving 101 when I was in school?

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We should respect those who do difficult jobs more than those who do not! Teachers, policemen, and soldiers deserve more respect than those whose jobs involve little or no risk of personal harm or death! Those who make high wages for comfy jobs in plush offices deserve the least respect, IMHO!
I don't categorize jobs that way. I'm not an elitist.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:58 PM
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Do you think it's because I flunked Fanatical Flag Waving 101 when I was in school?
Almost certainly.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 12:59 PM
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I don't categorize jobs that way. I'm not an elitist.
Well, you would, if you were a good person who had his priorities straight.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
Those who make high wages for comfy jobs in plush offices deserve the least respect, IMHO!
You mean like Corporate CEOs and politicians who align themselves with these corporations.




You must be a Nader supporter then.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
You are part of the attitude that alienated all of our soldiers who returned home from the Vietnam war!
We should respect those who do difficult jobs more than those who do not! Teachers, policemen, and soldiers deserve more respect than those whose jobs involve little or no risk of personal harm or death! Those who make high wages for comfy jobs in plush offices deserve the least respect, IMHO!
So you don't respect the baker that works twelve hour days, is a single parent, has three kids and still manages to go to all of their school activities (sports and school plays)?

That's a hero to me because it is a miracle of will to support a family.

His job isn't a risk. But it is still admirable.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
I have worked with several police officers who saved lives by killing an armed perpetrator. In one case, a man entered a library in Salt Lake City, armed, and started shooting. He killed a librarian and kept firing at the patrons. Officers responded to the scene. A friend of mine was the man who was first on the scene and ended up shooting and killing the perpetrator. He risked his life entering the building and shooting the gunman.

Was he a murderer for doing so?
Perhaps I should re-explain my view. Self defence is acceptable, although I guess that makes me a hypocrite because war could be seen as self defence also.

The friend you refer to killed someone intent on killing others. Can we say that the people we fight against in war are the enemy?

In WW2, we faught the Japanese, and saw them as the enemy, but how would they have viewed us? They would have seen us as being the enemy, of course. There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in war. The soldiers we faught against in the two world wars were just as innocent as the soldiers we sent over there to protect us. Did we look upon these people as being the 'enemy' because they were the foreigners? Did we consider that they were fighting for their country as much as we were fighting for ours?

I have great respect for those who go to war and fight for our freedom, I really do, but I not think we should give these people a public holiday and treat them like royalty for killing others. (I refer to those soldiers who have killed another in war, not those who simply went to war, but did not kill) I feel it's almost like condoning what they did. How can we say that killing another person is a good thing, and something to be congratulated?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2008, 11:40 PM
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It's been mentioned that the term 'hero' is overused, and I have to agree.

Football players, and Olympians are often refered to as 'sporting heroes'. This offends me because I don't see how winning a gold medal can make someone a hero.

What are everyones thoughts on the term 'sporting hero'?
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Can we say that the people we fight against in war are the enemy?

In WW2, we faught the Japanese, and saw them as the enemy, but how would they have viewed us? They would have seen us as being the enemy, of course. There are no 'good guys' or 'bad guys' in war.
If there attacking your country there an enemy. The invading side is usually considered the 'bad guys' but both sides usually see who there fighting as the enemy.

Quote:
The soldiers we faught against in the two world wars were just as innocent as the soldiers we sent over there to protect us. Did we look upon these people as being the 'enemy' because they were the foreigners? Did we consider that they were fighting for their country as much as we were fighting for ours?
We did see them as foreigners but that wasn't why we labelled them an enemy it just made it easier to do so. The germans and their allies weren't fighting for their countries they were fighting for someone elses. They were trying to invade the countries around them to gain more land while the other countries were fighting to survive.

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I have great respect for those who go to war and fight for our freedom, I really do, but I do not think we should give these people a public holiday and treat them like royalty for killing others. (I refer to those soldiers who have killed another in war, not those who simply went to war, but did not kill) I feel it's almost like condoning what they did. How can we say that killing another person is a good thing, and something to be congratulated?
It's better to look past the soldiers and to the people who were leading them. It's never the soldiers that decide who we go to war with and who we have to kill to protect ourselfs its there leaders. Soldiers are built for war and death is there job. To kill the enemy is there purpose. When countries go to war there will always be casualties and soldiers will always end up having to kill people and in turn protect the innocent from harm.

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Football players, and Olympians are often refered to as 'sporting heroes'. This offends me because I don't see how winning a gold medal can make someone a hero.

What are everyones thoughts on the term 'sporting hero'?
There a hero.. in sports but not the real world. Theres a big difference between the guy that scores a point and the guy who saves lives. The term isn't important outside of the games they play.
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
If there attacking your country there an enemy. The invading side is usually considered the 'bad guys' but both sides usually see who there fighting as the enemy.
If both sides see the other side as the enemy, there is eithor no real enemy, or both sides are actually the enemy - right? We can't say that eithor side was the 'good guys' because there is no good side. There can't be.

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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
We did see them as foreigners but that wasn't why we labelled them an enemy it just made it easier to do so.
Did labelling them the enemy make it easier to go to war and kill them? If we went to war thinking these people were our friends, would that have made it harder to kill them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
The germans and their allies weren't fighting for their countries they were fighting for someone elses. They were trying to invade the countries around them to gain more land while the other countries were fighting to survive.
Were the soldiers themselves fighting to gain more land, or were they simply defending their countries against a people they deemed to be the enemy? Were they fighting for their Government, who wanted more land? If they faught for a Government, it makes them just as innocent as we were back then, doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
It's better to look past the soldiers and to the people who were leading them. It's never the soldiers that decide who we go to war with and who we have to kill to protect ourselfs its there leaders.
In the first world wars, children as young as 14 chose to go to war, even though it was illegal for them to do so, being too young. The soliders of today join the Army, knowing there is a chance they will be sent to war, so in a way, they choose to go to war. Back during the first two world wars, they were not sent to war, they often chose to go to war, so therefore they chose to kill, because they knew that war involves violence and death.
Not sure if I managed to explain that well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
When countries go to war there will always be casualties and soldiers will always end up having to kill people and in turn protect the innocent from harm.
But who is really innocent? The people who invade a country, or the people who reside in that country, and attempt to defend it? How do we decide who is innocent, and who is guilty?
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