The role of government is a biggie with the con/neo-con/libertarian/Randian Objectivist crowd.

The posters here who fall into the categories I've listed above may have some concrete and valid points about what it is they want to see the role of government being. What they don't have is the truth about what others want that very role to be. The first whiff of a bankrupt argument is that it is predicated upon one side defining or attempting the redefining what the 'other' side believes. It is not a pro argument as much as it is an attack on others. "They are wrong, therefore I am right."

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

I asked Tarheeler this...
and he replied with this...
He/she says that I along with the democrats and republicans are for the role of government being that of basically a nanny: telling people how they should live, what they must have.

now let us look at this.

Somehow, somewhere, Tarheeler, has gotten the notion in his head that the government, our government tells people how they should live. He has another notion: that the government, our government tells us what we must have.

Are any of these things true? Forget about whether you agree with him/her on some things or whether you like him/her...are these notions based on reality and truth?

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

and then we get to this one...

__________________

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

Tarheel wrote:
The problem here is that nowhere did I say the government had the power to decide what people needed in their lives although I think it theoretically could. The government has all the power we give it.

But I never endorsed the concept that is the role of government od that I support that warped view which I say exists only in his/her mind.

This is another issue altogether and it will get addressed.

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

I said "The government never became the ward of society."

and

Tarheel said "The government is the ward of society, Dante."

----

so here we have two opposing views of what the government is.

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

I've already pointed this out, but so far what I have seen is that what "role" should the government be is a utopian argument and thus flawed in its basic premise.

To me, it seems the role of the government should be what the people of the country decide it to be, for better or for worse.

The real role of the government isn't some scientific pietri dish experiment that's abscent from historical/cultural/economic context, but completely dependent upon the present circumstances and the democratic consensus of its people.

So if there is going to be an argument on the role of this non-existent government that everyone refers to, at least accept that its an argument based on utopian ideals and cannot be legitimately argued.

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Signature:

Conservatives talk about what the role of goverment IS as stated by the constitution of the united states.

Liberals talk about what they think the roll of Goverment should be based upon the fact that that some people have more money than others.

Biiiiig Difference!

Conservatives think with their heads.

Liberals think with their hearts.

Conservatives believe that you should not take the liberties away from one man to provide extra rights and libertys to another.

Liberals believe that people who have sacraficed to make a living should pay for thoes who have not!

Does this clear it up for you?

so now we are going to start making sense?

<*wink>

I think this is the most obvious thing and the least recognized. Why? Why is it ignored in these arguments?

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."

Role of government

1.) Protect the rights, life, liberty, and property, of all the individuals in the nation.
2.) Defend the country from foreign or domestic invasion or subversion.
3.) Protect the free market from the forces of monopolies.
4.) Provide a system that represents the people, so that the power of the government is put in check.
5.) Ensure that no one person or group in the government becomes so powerful as to prevent any of the previous purposes.


If we were to have a argument about the government's role in a utopian society, then it would be that the government should do everything, because people would be perfect, uncorruptable saints. This argument cannot apply to the real world because the real world is not perfect, and in order to achieve the greatest possible society, it is necessary to make concessions to what is perfect in order that you can have what is best.

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"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

--Murray Rothbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny. A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

Were FDR's policies ever meant to stop the depression? Where did this argument get implanted in White Fox's noggin'?

"It is widely recognized..." dare I say, by whom? lol

That is why he was so unpopular and is revered by most everyone who grew up back then...even Republicans.

But where did Whitey, get this notion that FDR's policies were meant to stop the depression?

__________________

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know them by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against them.
-Jonathan Swift

---"Thoughts On Various Subjects, Moral and Diverting."