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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:00 AM
Scotnat Scotnat is offline
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Ronin - Talgar (#4),

This is an excellent post whereas post #2 by Arya Stark is just a lot of nonsense. Just to add to the 'terrorist/freedom fighter' comment is the saying - One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 06:18 AM
Smael87 Smael87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klipkap View Post
Please excuse what is perhaps the flogging of a dead horse, but I for one am still confused by some critical terminology used in news broadcasts and political debate.

So what is a freedom fighter (and is it a redundant term in 2008 - have such folk exited the planet)?
And what is a terrorist, arguably the most overused word in modern debate that lacks a suitable universal definition imho?
What is anactivist and is it a useful term?
What is an insurgent and is the concept useful in international debate, if only for the undecided or mentally lazy?

Can we test any forthcoming definitions to highlight their possible strengths and weaknesses? For instance against:
# Nelson Mandela
# Lech Walesa
# George Washington
The ANC (Mandela's party) is still listed as a terrorist organization by the US, which was actually done at the behest of the then Apartheid regime.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:23 PM
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2008, 03:24 PM
klipkap klipkap is offline
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Default Yup - thought so

Many thanks to all of you who contributed.

It seems that we agree that these terms are fraught with bias introduced by the political point at which one stands, and that their use often introduces blurring. So when Fox News calls someone a terrorist, The Guardian may believe them to be a freedom fighter.

Let me throw one more pebble into the blurred pond. What was Hesbollah in 1982, remembering that it is now considered by the neocons to be the epitome of a terrorist organisation?

How and when did they change?

Yep - sure is confusing.
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Old 07-14-2008, 03:28 PM
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It's all about perspective. We like freedom fighters and we hate terrorists. But then, everyone likes freedom fighters and hates terrorists. But then, one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

It's all propaganda.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:10 AM
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I think the question is a little weighted - but I get your gist.

Freedom Fighter (USA) - A person fighting for the right of others to make their own decisions.
Freedom Fighter (Alqaeda) - A person fighting for their right to make decisions for others.

Terrorist (USA) - The United States military as viewed from the left/hollywood/news...
Terrorist (Alqaeda) - A viable career option.

Activist (USA) - Someone who pursues a political goal without the benefit of an AK-47.
Activist (Alqaeda) - Same as above - but now with bullets.

Insurgent (USA) - Those guys over there! - OPEN FIRE!
Insurgent (Alqaeda) - See Freedom Fighter.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klipkap View Post
Please excuse what is perhaps the flogging of a dead horse, but I for one am still confused by some critical terminology used in news broadcasts and political debate.

So what is a freedom fighter (and is it a redundant term in 2008 - have such folk exited the planet)?
And what is a terrorist, arguably the most overused word in modern debate that lacks a suitable universal definition imho?
What is anactivist and is it a useful term?
What is an insurgent and is the concept useful in international debate, if only for the undecided or mentally lazy?

Can we test any forthcoming definitions to highlight their possible strengths and weaknesses? For instance against:
# Nelson Mandela
# Lech Walesa
# George Washington
I'll give you two concrete examples:

Terrorist - Hamas might be one example for although they are fighting for their freedom, in the process they have deliberately targeted civilians.

Freedom fighter - Hezbollah is the perfect example having fought for their people's freedom from outside aggressors and having dedicated themselves only to the targeting of enemy fighters and military targets.
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Old 07-15-2008, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klipkap View Post
So what is a freedom fighter..
What is an insurgent..
here. try this crazyfook. he covered both.




...'course he got himself drawn and quartered for it
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Old 07-15-2008, 04:03 AM
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A freedom fighter is a terrorist who works for your side.

A terrorist is a freedom fighter who works for the other side.
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Old 07-15-2008, 11:11 AM
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Tedminator [reply #18],

In view of your use of an image from the film Braveheart I thought that the following extract would be appropriate -

'The success of Braveheart, with its bedaubed hooligans and a simple, one-dimensional Wallace, tells us more about its audience than the nature of the patriot and his role. For the director and scriptwriter of the film, the concern was not liberty but the taking of liberties. Their Wallace was a noble savage, of the kind found in James Fenimore Cooper. The inaccuracies in the script are to be expected; Hollywood has in the past been free with the stories, among others, of Mary, Queen of Scots and Bonnie Prince Charlie. Our knowledge of Wallace, if derived solely from the facts available to us, is more than adequate to provide a film with all the elements Hollywood seeks. An opportunity to portray Wallace as he was and, at the same time, to bring his story, unadulterated, to the audience, was spurned.'

SOURCE: 'WILLIAM WALLACE' by Andrew Fisher, page 279, ISBN 0 85976 557 1.
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