It's real. It's there. It exists.

Those looking for the next government handout simply choose to ignore the fact that they can get an education and a good job if they were sufficiently motivated and hard working. People can teach themselves what they need to know, besides the fact that we have public education. People can then go to college, on a loan if need be, and get a higher level of education with which to move further on towards success.

One of Obama's main campaign strategies is to argue that opportunity has vanished from the country and that people can no longer achieve the American dream. Well I think it is obvious that he is wrong. Never before in our nation's history have we had as much as we do now, and we continue to grow. The poor in our nation have a standard of living that most people in the world can only dream about.

In addition, the proposals that Obama has put forward to fix this supposed problem have significant problems of their own. It is easily apparent that his proposed spending on domestic programs exceeds any reasonable way to pay for them. His solution? Tax the rich, tax them hard, even while lowering taxes for everyone else. The problem with that is partially that that will hurt the poor even more by taking away the cheap production that allows them to have their standard of living and by taking away many of the jobs that allow them to pay for everything. The result would be a mass of people living off of generous government welfare. The other is that one is not justified in taking more from one person to give to another, based simply on need.

The solution for these people that want more than what they have is simple.

Work for it.

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__________________
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"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

--Murray Rothbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny. A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

I also don't think there are very many people in the U.S. that are truly "poor" either. Here are some figure that World Bank came up with in 2003. For the U.S. avg per capita income was 37,500. Canada's (the supposed model for us all) was only 29,740. Let's look at what a poor country really is:

Russia - 8,920
China - 4,990
Ethiopia 710 (Yes $710.00)
Sierra Leone 530

Do we have many poor or just a lot of lazy? This is the Informational Age isn't it?

Link: http://www.success-and-culture.net/a...taincome.shtml (the link to compare other countries to the U.S.)

Tell that to the 63,000 people that lost their jobs in Feburary.
How about hte 80,000 lost in March
20,000 in April

I'm hearing a number of around 285,000 for May. Yea, tell those people. My Brother. A painter, was laid off. My other brother, an journeyman electrician, was laid off.

Given they'll eventually get their jobs back in a few weeks. People ARE losing their jobs right now, and that's the reality. Stack that with the extreme gas prices, and rising food prices. Yea, tons of opportunity.

Employment is a function of worldwide demand for labor. People who lose their jobs in the US are typically in industries where the demand for the products being produced is drastically slowing down, which results in slackening of the demand for labor in those particular industries. There is opportunity, however, in an environment where the pool of available labor is as large as that. If all else fails towards getting a job, one can build a company using the resource of that pool of labor to find success. That creates jobs for the jobless, and it is quite easy if one knows what products are demanded. And for that, one only has to know the workers, know the demand, and then work to supply that demand. Gas prices are a problem at the moment, and overall standard of living may be impacted by the expense of energy, but that is not to say that opportunity to produce or even get into the energy market is not available.

__________________
.

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

--Murray Rothbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny. A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

Thlso remains that the US has a large gap between the richest and poorest and it keeps growing, in fact it has been growing since the 1980's. There is Opportunity in America, don't get me wrong, but say for example you were a Black kid in some inner city ghetto, would you really think that the government or anyone was going to look after you? Would you even have the resources to change it? Socio-Economic conditioning is disproportionally in favour of White people and the it remains true that many White's don't even realise.

How can we cast judgement on what the Poor should do when we have ourselves never been in their skin?

Opportunity exists in America, opportunity for some.

__________________
I'll tell you this no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
You may bury my body, down by the highway side,
so my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride.
You and I must fight to survive

The gap does grow. As the rich get richer faster than the poor get richer.

The poor are still getting rich by absolute standards, if not by relative standards.

__________________
.

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

--Murray Rothbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny. A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

I'm not so sure about that, the wealth in America is increasingly being concentrated in a smaller number of hands as opposed to the many which is breaking the fundamentals of modern liberal democracy.

__________________
I'll tell you this no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
You may bury my body, down by the highway side,
so my old evil spirit can get a Greyhound bus and ride.
You and I must fight to survive

Standard of living, not percentage of wealth owned by who.

The Poor In America

The absolute wealth of the poor in America is increasing, and is higher than it ever has been. Their standard of living is higher than the rich in many countries.

__________________
.

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a 'dismal science.' But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.

--Murray Rothbard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny. A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

Well

It just didn't seem like a great time to say there's more opportunity in America now than there ever was. When hundreds of thousands of people are losing their jobs monthly.

More economic mobility exists elsewhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economi...lity_worldwide


Here too:

http://www.economicmobility.org/