The House of Mo' not enough for fear-mongers, so let's try The House of Saud:


"Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden, who is believed to be in hiding in South Asia. The kingdom has been an attack target for al-Qaida, which Saudi authorities refer to as "the deviant ideology," since 2003. During that time hundreds of people - both Saudi nationals and foreigners, most of them oil-industry workers - have been killed."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/securi...0625-voa02.htm

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

Or a series of mistakes and bad luck happenings.
Considering all the stuff US intelligence has to take care of, it is almost inevitable that at some point something will slip through.
Keep in mind the reasons why air control did not respond to the hijacked planes... Because the first noted problems were not abnormal from their view. I heard one of the air control guys talking about it on NPR. The first warning signs they got were so common that they didn't look into it... If they looked into every instance with those warning signs, it would be a security problem in itself- overstretching, too many false alarms.
By the time they got something that was worthy of their attention... it was too late to stop it.

That's a problem with security in general. You can only focus on a given number of warning signs to keep the system workable. Terrorists, much like computer hackers, look for weaknesses and ways to slip under the radar. No system is inpenetrable.

I think in many ways 9/11 is a wakeup call to how good our security really is... because if it was not, 9/11 would be a norm.

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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

Ahhh more talk about Moderates.

And Perham boy.. I didn't catch your answer to my questions.

Do you want Sharia Law?
Is the Koran Literally True?
(watch the 'moderate' take a powder again)

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Who's an Extremist and HOW Ted?

Put up or Shut Up.
You continually make this False accusation.

(Watch Tedminator take a powder here too)
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Other: the enemy of Islam is common sence.

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"True Freedom is the Freedom to oppress others"

Ideology: Self Preservation.

well, you. as for how.. according to the latest poll; i.beletesri, rashed, Sunni Man, are all in agreement. Which puts you in the company of radicals.

You hate the moslems.. most of your posts are about how much you despise the religion of Islam. In fact you hate them so much, you've become what you fear the most.


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okies i.b., I answered your question. But you still haven't answered mine from months ago, in this thread: So Why Are We Sending Tons Of Money To Israel

cripes.. simple yes or no question and you spent half a dozen pages dodging it. anyhoo answer it over in that thread. or not.

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

Ok, I voted for USB because I think that there is a difference between doing harm to a religion and doing harm to a people. The United States (and the west in general) does more harm, directly or indirectly, to people througout the Third World than can ever be competed with. In this way the U.S. is the "enemy" (I use this word carefully, I don't think there is some moral bankruptcy inherent in Westerners that makes us "evil" and therefor enemies, but I do think we and our lifestyles are the cause of most of the misery around the world.) of Muslims. However it is Osama who is the enemy of Islam as a theology.

The islamic interpretation of hebrew monotheism brings just about as many interesting perspectives as the interpretation that is currently favoured in the west. There are many things within the Q'uran that I find morally distasteful, however I have the same issue with the New Testament (Peter's suport of slavery for example) However, I live in Quebec and the thousands of devout catholics that I have met here have convinced me that proper and selective interpretation of the New Testament can yield a beautiful faith that brings much good to the world. The same process is possible of Islam and I'm sure is happening in many places with many people.

That being said, the problems concerning the "Muslim World" are real. The kind of interpretation of the Q'uran that I believe would lead to grace and peace in the hearts of its followers is not happening. This is due to several reasons but one of the largest is radical fundamentalism, personafied in this poll by OSB. Now it is true that radicalism does not occur in a vacuum, however there is a huge weight of history behind fundamentalism and anti-western feeling that has precisely zero to do with the writings of the Q'uran. From the crusades onwards to the economic predations of the West upon the Ottomans, all the way to the high handed colonialist treatment of the League of nations and the U.N. security council, the west's history of greed and arrogance concerning the Middle East is staggering, and it is continued with the United States' selfish "blunt instrument" style diplomacy and economic neo colonialism. This would breed nationalistic resistance in almost any territory, however it is Osama who has linked his bloody political agenda with his Religion, and has therefore bloodied the face of islam, perhaps for centuries.

Now there are also points raised concerning the political regimes in place in muslim nations. It is my belief that these regimes simply use Islam as a unifying cultural tool to help prop up their dictatorships which would exist regardless of the theology of the region. The fact that many muslim nations are dictatorships I think has more to do with the directions in which Islam spread and the geo political and economic realities of the regions which it spread to. The West had marked the rest of the world for economic subservience the moment it lay eyes on it, and it is simply misfortune for muslims that they happened to be the most popular religion in the Non European Eurasian and north African region. There are military dictatorships all over regions which are economically unstable and carry resources that are valuable to the West, Africa is a prime example. This has nothing to do with the Q'uran and Islam as an independent theology. I agree however that it has a lot to do with the uses which that powerful cultural force is put, and this is why Osama Bin Laden has done more to hurt Islam as a faith than anyone else.

This poll, truly shows what I have been saying all along.

In fact, the so called Moderate Muslims will pick USA on this poll.
which shows they are not so Moderate.

Then there is the others, mostly people from the west, who are ignorant of Islam
who believe UBL to be the worst Enemy of Islam. This is due to how the west thinks.
for it is the west who believe Islam can be reformed, and that UBL has tarnished
Islam, yet Muslin's around the world show in many polls that have been done, that
they sympathies with UBL and the terrorist, who are great people fighting Jihad
against the greatest evil, "The USA" this is why Muslims around the world do not
speak out with a loud voice against terrorists or UBL. very little do, but Majority
wins.

It is the west, who has to learn why this is so. To turn a blind eye on this fact
is to surrender to Islam, because you are fighting with wrong methods, you want
to believe Islam can be reformed, because you won't take the time to learn about
Islam enough to see that Islam would not be Islam if you reformed it.

It's like taking Christ out of Christianity, it loses it's reason to exist.
As Long as you stay blind to what Islam really is, you lose the fight to ever
be free of it's terror, and it's abuses that Allah has set forth in the Quran
and the Hedith.

Ignorance is a pure form of laziness. And laziness deserves no mercy.


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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Or it shows that the US is doing a (*)(*)(*)(*)-poor job of making itself seem friendly (or at least non-threatening) to moderate Muslims.
If you believed a country was hostile toward Christianity, would you- moderate or not- not consider it a threat or an enemy?

BTW... how significant is this poll in real life? We have all of a couple Muslims... and most of the Muslims we get are politically active ones from other countries.
I get the feeling that moderate Muslims don't care much for politics...
When you look at... real polls, as opposed to this one, you see far different results.

The radicals certainly are the loudest... but reputable polls show they are not the majority.
It's also shown by data that as terrorists cause more violence in the Muslim countries, their sympathies from the population drop.
The only thing that keeps the population in anyway sympathetic is the belief (the wrong belief I think- but many cons here prove the exception) that the US is hostile toward Islam itself.


Sorry. I have learned about it. I've also learned about the broader subject of religion anthropology and how religions change, adapt, and survive.
Scripture makes religions more stubborn... but does not prevent them from inevitable change.
Anyone who actually looks at the histories of the religions (not just Islam but Christianity as well) will see this.


Strangely there are several interpretations of Christ, are there not?
Or do you not consider sects of Christianity that you don't like to have Christ (typical of fundies... something fundy Christians share with fundy Muslims- the very reason moderate Muslims must live in fear)

I think your ilk are living proof that it can be achieved through effort as well.
When you seek the facts you want, they are all you find.

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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

JavaBlack,
If Islam is not the problem, why is the UK and France having such a
hard time with their Muslim Population??

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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson