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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Let me get this straight, the same government that has a track record of “overpayment” for everything it does, pours hundreds of billions and even trillions of dollars down rat holes is going to take over health insurance for America and make it efficient and cost effective?
Funny how people think. As long as Mother Government promises something "free," the sheep will fall over themselves to get to it, even though in the end, it's the sheep who are paying for it (monetarily, and through less freedom).

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Democrats will believe anything as long as it glorifies government. Government is daddy and mommy to democrats and they can't make it without it.
Nailed it, dude.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
Like WhiteFox said my comments didn't totally encompass the entirety of his argument. I don't feel the need to continue addressing public health insurance on all of it's very broad aspects because it really only takes looking at it from a single perspective to debunk it's legitimacy.

The government can't run anything efficiently. Period.
You're wrong, of course. All these sweeping generalities are tiresome.

We have the best postal service in the world. Medicare has a lot less overhead than any private health insurance plan.

You're already paying for indigent care in your current insurance premium.

Last edited by farmer_fred; 06-25-2008 at 07:59 AM.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 09:31 AM
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We have the best postal service in the world.
Yeah..they also have to directly compete with private services like UPS, FedEx and DHL. That plays a significant role in their effectiveness. Perhaps it also explains why USPS is hurting right now, for business.

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Medicare has a lot less overhead than any private health insurance plan.
Got something to back up your claim?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ABoyNamedSue View Post
Yeah..they also have to directly compete with private services like UPS, FedEx and DHL. That plays a significant role in their effectiveness. Perhaps it also explains why USPS is hurting right now, for business.


Got something to back up your claim?
Actually, you and your compadres repeatedly ignore all facts presented and repeat your tiresome fictional mantras that government never does anything efficiently. It is religion for you. You don't want to think about solutions. You have not responded to questions and you just make the same generalizations over and over like some kabuki theater performer.

Medicare has much lower overhead than private insurance companies- look it up! It has been posted many times on this forum.

The fact is that the status quo is not in an improving or even holding pattern. Every year more companies drop benefits, the rate of health care inflation exceeds wage inflation, more people join the ranks of the uninsured.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:14 AM
Craigers Craigers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmer_fred View Post
You're wrong, of course. All these sweeping generalities are tiresome.

We have the best postal service in the world. Medicare has a lot less overhead than any private health insurance plan.

You're already paying for indigent care in your current insurance premium.
But Medicare Part A is in serious need of help. Lets also not forget the mess of social security...

In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.


http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Craigers View Post
But Medicare Part A is in serious need of help. Lets also not forget the mess of social security...

In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.


http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf
And the democrats go: "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!"
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe View Post
Actually, you and your compadres repeatedly ignore all facts presented and repeat your tiresome fictional mantras that government never does anything efficiently. It is religion for you. You don't want to think about solutions. You have not responded to questions and you just make the same generalizations over and over like some kabuki theater performer.

Medicare has much lower overhead than private insurance companies- look it up! It has been posted many times on this forum.

The fact is that the status quo is not in an improving or even holding pattern. Every year more companies drop benefits, the rate of health care inflation exceeds wage inflation, more people join the ranks of the uninsured.
Meanwhile that overhead is replaced by fraud (in Medicare), something the left always ignores. At least with overhead it goes to workers instead of thieves. Medicare is a mess.
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ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
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SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:59 AM
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If this is "one more reason to vote Democrat" what was the first reason? Is it as poorly conceived as this second reason?
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All you need to know about the energy crisis:
ANWR Exploration Republicans: 91% Supported. Democrats: 86% Opposed.
Coal-to-liquid R's: 90% YES. D's: 78% NO.
Oil Shale Exploration R's: 90% YES. D's: 86% NO.
Outer Continental Shelf Exploration R's: 81% YES. D's: 83% NO.
Increased Refinery Capacity R's: 97% YES. D's: 96% NO

SUMMARY: 91% of House Republicans have historically voted to increase the production of America’s own oil and gas. 86% of House Democrats have historically voted against.

Last edited by Rebellion; 06-25-2008 at 10:59 AM.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by farmer_fred View Post
You're wrong, of course. All these sweeping generalities are tiresome.

We have the best postal service in the world. Medicare has a lot less overhead than any private health insurance plan.

You're already paying for indigent care in your current insurance premium.
The postal service raises the price of a stamp every month and still loses money. Medicare has so much red ink we could paint the world red with it and have some red left over, and Medicare/Medicaid has unfunded liabilities into the future that even scares God, politicians won't even talk about it. Any private insurance company would have had to fold their tent by now if they operated like Medicare/Medicaid.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Craigers View Post
But Medicare Part A is in serious need of help. Lets also not forget the mess of social security...

In 2007, Medicare Part A benefit payments began to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2011, the Medicare Part A Trust Fund begins to decline as benefits exceed payroll taxes and trust fund interest.

In 2017, Social Security benefit payments will begin to exceed the program’s tax revenue.

In 2019, Medicare Part A Trust Fund assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits would be reduced to 79 percent of scheduled benefits in 2019, declining to 29 percent by 2081.

In 2027, Social Security Trust Funds begin to decline as benefits exceed tax revenue and trust fund interest.

In 2040, federal debt held by the public will exceed the historical high of 109 percent of GDP.

In 2041, Social Security Trust Funds’ assets will not be enough to pay full benefits. Under current law, benefits for all retirees would be reduced to 75 percent of scheduled benefits in 2041, declining to 70 percent by 2081.

In 2080, total government cost will be more than three times revenue.


http://www.fms.treas.gov/frsummary/frsummary2007.pdf
And it has been stated numerous times in these arguments: don't confuse the funding issue with efficiency. It should be self-evident that a government comprised of people who are hostile to government, will do their best to underfund and under staff government programs which they don't care for. Bush and co. have done that and more- they hire people for positions based on ideological loyalty rather than competence. They expand Medicare, shoveling money into the pockets of the private sector and make no provision to pay for it.
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