Were America's founding fathers radical liberals?

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #1 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:33 PM

Well they were most surely not conservatives.

Quote:

Are American Conservatives Liberal?

by Eric Szuter

"Tradition!" cries the father of the young woman in "Fiddler on the Roof." This is a one-word explanation to his daughter - the reason why he cannot give his blessing to a marriage proposal she received from a non-Jewish young man. Tradition! And that's that!

If we try to remain intellectually honest, we must admit that the universal aspect of the conservative position, regardless of the culture, is simply tradition. Conservatives have a yearning for the long-established values of the culture in which they live.

For example, we have all heard or read of the "conservative hardliners" in Russia and China. These are people who yearn for the cultural values associated with totalitarian communism, a political system which, thankfully, is quickly receding into yesterday.

American conservatives yearn for the past values of the founding fathers; they are constantly hearkening back to the "Declaration of Independence," "The Federalist Papers," The "Bill of Rights," and "The Constitution." The ideas expressed in these documents are treasures of the American culture.

They were radical and revolutionary in the late eighteenth century, and to a large degree remain so to this very day. Nevertheless, I am simply pointing out that American conservatives, just as the conservatives of any other culture, are mainly traditionalists. They look upon past cultural values with a longing gaze and are generally reluctant to accept change.

This points to the Achilles' heel of the American conservative movement. If we look back over history through a telescopic lens,..

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #2 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:37 PM

here we go...

what a world, what a world...

Resolved Question

Quote:

Were America's Founding Fathers considered conservative or liberal?

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Quote:

They were considered revolutionaries. They were considered terrorists. And, though they fail to meet our contemporary standards of the term: yes, in their historical context, they were liberals. To the extent that their liberalism led them to extreme action against the repressive policies of an imperialist government, they were much more than liberal. They were radical leftists.

What we need is more people like them to ensure that the revolution doesn't die under the boot of corporate interests and the imperial government that serves those interests.

I've got to agree...excepting the groupspeak lingo at the end

.

music_lvr · #3 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:43 PM

I bet Jesus was a liberal too, right?

hendrixpujols11 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:48 PM

Interesting. We also must remember that when the founding fathers lived, the world and America were very different places than they are today. The right to bear arms, and other policies may not be as relevant today than 250 years ago. There were no gangs and such. This is why quoting Thomas Jefferson and others can be dangerously deceiving.

Fear-And-Loathing · #5 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:49 PM

Yes they were radical Liberals and they would hang most representatives of the GOP and Dem's, sparing Ron Paul of course

Fear-And-Loathing · #6 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hendrixpujols11

Interesting. We also must remember that when the founding fathers lived, the world and America were very different places than they are today. The right to bear arms, and other policies may not be as relevant today than 250 years ago. There were no gangs and such. This is why quoting Thomas Jefferson and others can be dangerously deceiving.

They didn't have gangs back then? Ever heard of pirates and highwaymen? Geez.......

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #7 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hendrixpujols11

Interesting. We also must remember that when the founding fathers lived, the world and America were very different places than they are today. The right to bear arms, and other policies may not be as relevant today than 250 years ago. There were no gangs and such. This is why quoting Thomas Jefferson and others can be dangerously deceiving.

true

.

.

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #8 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear-And-Loathing

Yes they were radical Liberals and they would hang most representatives of the GOP and Dem's, sparing Ron Paul of course

Ron Paul would be sacrificed at the altar of liberty. He is akin to those who rose up against the newly formed government and were beaten back.

DanteAugustusGermanicus · #9 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fear-And-Loathing

They didn't have gangs back then? Ever heard of pirates and highwaymen? Geez.......

jesus... gangs and highwaymen were NOT running the major cities.

stop misrepresenting things or showing off your ignorance. both are unseemly

Fear-And-Loathing · #10 (**permalink**) 06-22-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanteAugustusGermanicus

Ron Paul would be sacrificed at the altar of liberty. He is akin to those who rose up against the newly formed government and were beaten back.

So he would be considered a 'Tory' (in the American sense of the word)?

Let's look at what Ron Paul stands for:

-Limited Government
-Rejection of unbalanced budgets
-Non Intervention
-Abolishment of the IRS and Income Tax

The Tory's stood for:

-Closer ties with the UK

Now this is significant because this shows how the 'Torys' favoured just accepting Britain's will which had clearly been demonstrated over the 18th century (intervening on Britains side in it's imperial wars in America and funding them through the American taxpayer). So essentially the 'Torys' placed faith in a system that was not accountable because it was unelected which is what you get with increased government. I would compare the 'Torys' to modern day Socialists, that is, they place a high value of faith in the ability of an increased government which is unelected, thus unaccountable and paid for by taxpayers.

Now, let's have a look at some quotes from the 'Founding Fathers':

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

-Thomas Jefferson

I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labor of the people, under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.

-Thomas Jefferson

“peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.”

-Thomas Jefferson

So you are comparing Ron Paul to the Tory's, just to clarify?

Anyway, back to the point, the Torys were considered Conservatives back then because they didn't want to break with the past unlike the Founding Fathers who were Revolutionary Liberals.

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