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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 12:38 PM
NJModerate14 NJModerate14 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
In case some of you have forgotten, islam has declared war on us.
Islamic Extremists declared war on us, which makes up less than 5% of all muslims. This is the exact bigotry and close-mindedness that needs to be put to an end. I would vote for McCain anyway even if he was muslim, gay, atheist, etc., because the most important thing is their political positions not their heritage, background, etc. I am personally not a huge fan of McCain socially, but Obama's socialist views on economy really turns me away from him.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 06:48 PM
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Post What is common sense???

Obama is an example for all to study and learn about
how you yourself can practice common sense.

Common sense tells you that if a guy, who has many friends who are
racist bigots, surrounding him for more then 20 years, how is it that
he is not effected by these views him self? and why does he JUST happen
to know so many bigots in his life? Your common sense should know the Answer
to this.

But Are you listing to your own common sense?


...
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Old 06-24-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
When you say McCain can be influenced by his religion, what do you mean?
He could make decisions that are based on his religious beliefs, obviously.
Obama could do, but I don't think Obama is anything to worry about, as, like I said, he isn't as religious as McCain appears to be.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
He could make decisions that are based on his religious beliefs, obviously.
Obama could do, but I don't think Obama is anything to worry about, as, like I said, he isn't as religious as McCain appears to be.
So, based on that, can I assume that you believe a person not grounded in his religion would be a better candidate, because he is less likely to make decisions based on his religious beliefs?

I guess, then, that means that an atheist would be the best since he believes in no religion .... no wait, that won't work. It would depend on how strongly he believes in no religion.

Ok -- I'm confused. Straighten me out.

Last edited by Spare; 06-24-2008 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:00 PM
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If Obama was Muslim I still wouldn't support him.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Spare View Post
So, based on that, can I assume that you believe a person not grounded in his religion would be a better candidate, because he is less likely to make decisions based on his religious beliefs?

I guess, then, that means that an atheist would be the best since he believes in no religion .... no wait, that won't work. It would depend on how strongly he believes in no religion.

Ok -- I'm confused. Straighten me out.
Okay, lets use the Family First party in Australia as an example.

They are anti abortion, anti gay rights, anti gambling, anti alcohol. If they were elected last year, they would have restricted rights to gay people, and would have banned pokie machines and also would have banned the advertising of alcohol after a certain time.
Steve Fielding has said once before (might have been on Enough Rope) that he holds strong religious beliefs and these are the decisions he'd make were he elected.

I voted Rudd because althought he claims to be Christain (from what I know) he doesn't allow his religion to make his decisions, and that was evident from the time he first started campaigning.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Makedde View Post
Okay, lets use the Family First party in Australia as an example.

They are anti abortion, anti gay rights, anti gambling, anti alcohol. If they were elected last year, they would have restricted rights to gay people, and would have banned pokie machines and also would have banned the advertising of alcohol after a certain time.
Steve Fielding has said once before (might have been on Enough Rope) that he holds strong religious beliefs and these are the decisions he'd make were he elected.

I voted Rudd because althought he claims to be Christain (from what I know) he doesn't allow his religion to make his decisions, and that was evident from the time he first started campaigning.
I presume you have a position on each of those issues. How do you differentiate between decisions of conscience and decisions of logic?

For example ... I will assume you are in favor of partial birth abortion, while I am opposed. How do you apply logic to the process of allowing the baby to be partially born, stopping it, inserting a needle into the skull, and sucking the brain out? How can that be anything but a decision of conscience? If you aren't opposed to it, then obviously you don't feel the baby is a person, but rather still an extension of its mother. So, aborting it does not violate your sense of right and wrong. Conversely, since I believe it is a person, I believe it is murder. When I vote against it, that is a vote of conscience. When you vote for it, that is a vote of conscience.

On the other hand, tax policy is a vote of logic .... unless, of course, you believe that taxing the poor is an abomination, and that taking money from the rich to give them is not stealing. Then, it's a vote of conscience.

I guess I'm trying to figure out how you divorce your belief system (at least partially influenced by your religious training, or lack of) from your logic system. If your constituents wanted to pass a law approving the marriage of 8 year old girls to grown men, would you be able to vote in favor of it, even though you abhor the very concept?
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Old 06-25-2008, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lucid View Post
If McCain came forth and claimed to be a Muslim, would those who support McCain now still vote for him?
He would then believe that having sex with a child was ok, so he'd believe that felonies are ok, so he could not (like Mohammad) be president - the person who enforces our LAWS against pedophilia, etc. (google: Aisha Mohammad sex 9 year-old). So of course no person of conscience could vote for him.

No Muslim will ever condemn Mohammad for destroying the life of a 9 year-old little girl, even though that behavior would, in the modern, civilized world, get you thrown in JAIL! Astonishing! Truly astonishing! If they do, they are then called "ex-Muslims"...and, uh, that gets you killed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

If McCain converted to Secular Humanism, however, then I'd probably go out and campaign for the guy right now!
It would be good if McCain could absolve himself of believing in any ancient superstitions (Christianity, Islam, etc.)

Btw, most people don't realize that the 1979 Time Person of The Year, who is loved by MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of Muslims, had sex with a 10 year-old because Mohammad had sex with a 9 year-old!? Astonishing! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Person_of_the_Year

From http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...4-C601B1E044AA
"Did she know that [he] himself married a ten-year-old girl when he was twenty-eight? Did she know that [he] called marriage to a girl before her first menstrual period “a divine blessing,” and advised the faithful: “Do your best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house”?"

Last edited by FreedomSeeker; 06-25-2008 at 01:53 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by NJModerate14 View Post
Islamic Extremists declared war on us, which makes up less than 5% of all muslims.
Wrong. 82.7% of Muslim respondents in one Al-Jazeera online poll favor bin laden:
http://www.acs-onweb.de/hd/content/p...tingerDFH.html
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
No.
......

In case some of you have forgotten, islam has declared war on us.
Actually, most religious wars in the very recent past involve The Religion of Violence (Islam), as this break-down clearly shows: http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm

So they've pretty much declared war on ALL non-Muslims, as Mohammad basically instructed them to do, as I read the Quran.

Read the Quran if you haven't, folks!
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