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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2008, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Well, it's more of a touchy subject with conservatives, and they usually disagree a lot, but most of the time when someone is seriously screwed from birth with no family and no help, no serious way to make money, nothing at all, most times they will give the okay, but the amount of people like that is so small. Most people can work, even retarded people. Disabilities do make things harder, but look at Stephine Hawkins. Look at your local McDonald's and check to see if there are any mentally handicap people working there. I just had a blind Spanish teacher in college.

The reason the subject is touchy is because there are those who take advantage of the system, who have no business getting welfare but try everything to get it. It's really sad.

I'd say the largest issue is the idea that if you are a single mother, you get welfare. It sounds like a generous idea, but now little girls in the slums actually joke about having babies to get their welfare check. That may sound like propaganda, but my I'm getting this straight from my mother who works as a teacher there. There are people who have 6-7 kids simply so they can get a larger check. It's terrible, but can you just stop the program? What are these people going to do? What if you say, "ok the program is stopped and nobody else gets welfare unless you were getting it before" and the people still go out and have more children?

The bottom line is that republicans feel that every person has a personal responsibility. It's America, anyone can make money.
Charities other than welfare. I'm not sure of any specifics, that's just an old political line that's been floating around. Often times those aren't 100% true, but it's possible - on averages republicans have more money.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2008, 11:00 PM
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2008, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sunnyside View Post
For example Bush is a Republican but hasn't been slashing government spending. Granted Democrats wanted to spend even more, but many conservatives still don't like how much the Republicans do.
That's a myth - or a lie (LINK).

Since 1970, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.

In the twelve years that a Democrat has sat in the White House, spending has increased at an average rate of 1.29% per year; during the 22 years of Republican presidencies, government spending has risen at an average rate of 2.12%. In other words, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.
During the 20 years Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress, spending has grown at an average rate of 1.84% per year, more than double the average rate of 0.89% per year during the six years the GOP ran Congress. (During the other eight years, when control of Congress was split between the two parties, spending grew at an average rate of 2.52%. The split-control years all occurred during Republican presidencies.)
When Democrats controlled the White House plus both houses of Congress, spending grew at 1.70% per year, slightly below the average growth rate of 1.83% for the entire period.
The slowest spending growth occurred when a Democrat sat in the White House and Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Spending rose by an average of just 0.89% during the six years of this situation, which all occurred with Bill Clinton as president and Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House.
During the 14 years Republicans controlled the White House and Democrats controlled both houses of Congress, spending grew at an average annual rate of 1.92%. During the eight years with a Republican president and a split Congress, spending grew at 2.54% per year.
The results are quite clear - not only do Republican presidents spend far more money, but they often spend it on such “necessities” as creating wars. Sadly, the American people are extremely unlikely to let the use of any for of facts, figures, or statistics inform their decisions. So, it looks like the Republican Party can continue with it’s campaign of FUD, and people will listen.

Also REPUBLICANS vs. DEMOCRATS ON THE ECONOMY (LINK)

Under Democratic presidents, every income class did well but the poorest did best. The bottom 20% had average pretax income growth of 2.63% per year while the top 5% showed pretax income growth of 2.11% per year.

Republicans were polar opposites. Not only was their overall performance worse than Democrats, but it was wildly tilted toward the well off. The bottom 20% saw pretax income growth of only .6% per year while the top 5% enjoyed pretax income growth of 2.09% per year. (What's more, the trendline is pretty clear: if the chart were extended to show the really rich — the top 1% and the top .1% — the Republican growth numbers for them would be higher than the Democratic numbers.)

In other words, Republican presidents produce poor economic performance because they're obsessed with helping the well off. Their focus is on the wealthiest 5%, and the numbers show it. At least 95% of the country does better under Democrats.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2008, 11:25 PM
B L Zeebub B L Zeebub is offline
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I presume your facts are correct, but is it not more fun for the interlectual to watch the great unwashed debate Obama's Religion, or McCains need for incontinance pads, or should we just settle for Fox news?
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raharu Haruha View Post
Bush pretty much is a populist, but it's not really fair to judge his whole fiscal basis off of his military spending, especially when he gets results.
Actually; I am not basing my comment about about the little Bush being a "FISCAL LIBERAL" on his military spending ...

for the most part Liberals wouldn't want to spend on the military...

I'm talking how he dumped so much into the:
  1. Head Start - which over 40 years has yet to accomplish it's goal.
  2. credit card contraption for Katrina victems which was scammed on.
  3. and others I can't think of right now ... sorry - just woke up ...
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 06:44 AM
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Default Welfare is for those who are in need by no fault of thier own

When something happens through no fault of your own almost everyone in this country believes there must be a temporary safety net, for a period of time until the person can get back on their feet, as they work hard to do so.
But welfare in our country now is being abused by many people who see it as a free ride.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Voice of Sanity View Post
That's a myth - or a lie (LINK).

Since 1970, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.

In the twelve years that a Democrat has sat in the White House, spending has increased at an average rate of 1.29% per year; during the 22 years of Republican presidencies, government spending has risen at an average rate of 2.12%. In other words, spending has grown 64% faster when a Republican sits in the White House than when a Democrat does.
During the 20 years Democrats have controlled both houses of Congress, spending has grown at an average rate of 1.84% per year, more than double the average rate of 0.89% per year during the six years the GOP ran Congress. (During the other eight years, when control of Congress was split between the two parties, spending grew at an average rate of 2.52%. The split-control years all occurred during Republican presidencies.)
When Democrats controlled the White House plus both houses of Congress, spending grew at 1.70% per year, slightly below the average growth rate of 1.83% for the entire period.
The slowest spending growth occurred when a Democrat sat in the White House and Republicans controlled both houses of Congress. Spending rose by an average of just 0.89% during the six years of this situation, which all occurred with Bill Clinton as president and Newt Gingrich as Speaker of the House.
During the 14 years Republicans controlled the White House and Democrats controlled both houses of Congress, spending grew at an average annual rate of 1.92%. During the eight years with a Republican president and a split Congress, spending grew at 2.54% per year.
The results are quite clear - not only do Republican presidents spend far more money, but they often spend it on such “necessities” as creating wars. Sadly, the American people are extremely unlikely to let the use of any for of facts, figures, or statistics inform their decisions. So, it looks like the Republican Party can continue with it’s campaign of FUD, and people will listen.

Also REPUBLICANS vs. DEMOCRATS ON THE ECONOMY (LINK)

Under Democratic presidents, every income class did well but the poorest did best. The bottom 20% had average pretax income growth of 2.63% per year while the top 5% showed pretax income growth of 2.11% per year.

Republicans were polar opposites. Not only was their overall performance worse than Democrats, but it was wildly tilted toward the well off. The bottom 20% saw pretax income growth of only .6% per year while the top 5% enjoyed pretax income growth of 2.09% per year. (What's more, the trendline is pretty clear: if the chart were extended to show the really rich — the top 1% and the top .1% — the Republican growth numbers for them would be higher than the Democratic numbers.)

In other words, Republican presidents produce poor economic performance because they're obsessed with helping the well off. Their focus is on the wealthiest 5%, and the numbers show it. At least 95% of the country does better under Democrats.
Republicans may believe in government spending and helping the well off.

Conservatives, however, believe in limited government spending and the government helping no one.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:12 AM
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republicans are into limited government because thats necessary for the uninhibited pursuit of wealth. conservativism, in politics, has to do with preservation of order -- its not really about limiting government, but change. the core principles of conservativism and liberalism are constant, but the ideologies are relative to the zeitgeist.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JMS View Post
republicans are into limited government because thats necessary for the uninhibited pursuit of wealth. conservativism, in politics, has to do with preservation of order -- its not really about limiting government, but change. the core principles of conservativism and liberalism are constant, but the ideologies are relative to the zeitgeist.
This is exactly why terms like "liberal" and "conservative" shouldn't be used often in politics. Ideologically explicit terms should be used instead.

One of my first threads was on this subject. Of "Left" and "Right"
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:46 AM
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these terms do confuse a lot of people in the us (most people, probably). they have their uses, but yeah, id say theyre more divisive than anything else. its politics though. what are ya gonna do.
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