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Old 06-27-2008, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Perhaps Sweeden should have put more effort into getting Saddam to comply with inspections. Oh well, I am sure you will know better next time.

The the meantime, the US gained the permanent removal of a hostile dictatorship and the Iraqi People got control of their country. If you want to thwart us next time you will have to try harder.
Oh sure. . . They got control of their country alright. A country who's president is a puppet inserted by the U.S.. There's also this thing about a foreign military occupying their country and killing their citizens.

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Old 06-27-2008, 01:32 PM
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Y'all can say whatever you want about Obama said this, Bush said this and did that, while McCain would have done this, and it doesn't mean a thing.

What really matters is this -

North Korea took a small step towards maybe making this world a little safer for us all to live.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is a good thing!

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Old 06-27-2008, 01:41 PM
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Oh sure. . . They got control of their country alright. A country who's president is a puppet inserted by the U.S..
Their President was not inserted by anyone. He was freely elected. If you have actual evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it.



Quote:
There's also this thing about a foreign military occupying their country and killing their citizens.
Please post your evidence that the US is there against the will of the freely elected Iraqi government.
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Their President was not inserted by anyone. He was freely elected. If you have actual evidence to the contrary, feel free to post it.
Make sure U check all the links when U click.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/ju...iraq-j03.shtml

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...elligerent.htm


Quote:
Please post your evidence that the US is there against the will of the freely elected Iraqi government.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51624/

I could go on all day, but I think U get it.


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Old 06-27-2008, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ABoyNamedSue View Post
I disagree with Bush here.

He should have came onto national television, and announced that if North Korea even thinks of launching a nuclear weapon, their entire country would be leveled with our nukes, and we would hunt down any survivors.

Same thing goes with Iran. Bush should have dared Ahmadingypants to fire off a nuke.
Does that mean that we move all of our troops out of S.Korea first?


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Old 06-28-2008, 03:39 PM
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I'm not even involved in this but you really went to the far reaches of the internet for those links:


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/ju...iraq-j03.shtml = World Socialist Web Sites, yikes.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...elligerent.htm = OP ED written by:

Quote:
About the Author: Francis A. Boyle, Professor of Law, University of Illinois, is author of Foundations of World Order, Duke University Press, The Criminality of Nuclear Deterrence, and Palestine, Palestinians and International Law, by Clarity Press.
Whom I've never heard of but maybe he's credible?

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/ = Think progress, usually means progressive, and the group that did the polling, WorldPublicOpinion.org, seems to have some credible names associated with it. I'd consider it legit and I even found this snippet about them on Wiki:
Quote:
Some of PIPA/WPO’s best known studies include global polls conducted with GlobeScan for the BBC World Service, often covering 30-35 countries; a study linking viewership of Fox News to misperceptions of facts concerning the war in Iraq, as well as other topics.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51624/ = This is also just a blog written by a blogger at Alternet.org and Raed Jarrar who is the Iraq Consultant to the American Friends Service Committee. The AFSC says it "Supports Quacker Values and criticize the war in Iraq on it's home page, but he's not a journalist so bias isn't unethical or anything.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anikdote View Post
I'm not even involved in this but you really went to the far reaches of the internet for those links:


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/ju...iraq-j03.shtml = World Socialist Web Sites, yikes.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...elligerent.htm = OP ED written by:



Whom I've never heard of but maybe he's credible?

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/ = Think progress, usually means progressive, and the group that did the polling, WorldPublicOpinion.org, seems to have some credible names associated with it. I'd consider it legit and I even found this snippet about them on Wiki:


http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51624/ = This is also just a blog written by a blogger at Alternet.org and Raed Jarrar who is the Iraq Consultant to the American Friends Service Committee. The AFSC says it "Supports Quacker Values and criticize the war in Iraq on it's home page, but he's not a journalist so bias isn't unethical or anything.
lmao your lucky they didn't link ya to Huffington!!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
Is this lost on everyone?

Obama's suggestion that he would be willing to negotiate with Cuba, Syria and Iran is BAD! If you TALK to the tyrants who are trying to construct nuclear (noo-kyoo-lar) weapons, then you are weak and are APPEASING tyrants and are making America WEAK... except for when...

...your last name is Bush and you negotiate with North Korea, which already HAS developed nuclear weapons.



This is really, really different that talking to Iran, Syria and others because....

um....

uh.....
Mr. Bush has not directly negotiated with Korea. So the very premise of this argument false thus relegating the whole of the argument to spurious.

In point of fact, the Bush strategy actually accomplished precisely what it set out to do, it used tough minded, but well reasoned diplomacy which forced a nation exceedingly hostile to the US to capitulate to US demands;this despite initial demands by the communist North Korean government that they negotiate directly and unilaterally with the Bush administration. The Bush strategy is proof certain that the stated policy of B. Hussein Obama is the perfect example of what NOT to do, as it mirrors the failed policy of the Clinton regime, which lead directly to this crisis.

Appeasing socialists will only beget socialist power. They'e snakes and never to be trusted by anyone, at anytime or for any reason.
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Old 06-28-2008, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Perhaps Sweeden should have put more effort into getting Saddam to comply with inspections. Oh well, I am sure you will know better next time.
And I am sure you will know how to spell Sweden better next time.

I posted this on another thread, but it is relevant here as well. It is written by the Chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq, Hans Blix, a Swede.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ar/20/iraq.usa

Quote:
A war of utter folly

Responsibility for this spectacular tragedy must lie with those who ignored the facts five years ago

Hans Blix
The Guardian, Thursday March 20, 2008

The invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a tragedy - for Iraq, for the US, for the UN, for truth and human dignity. I can only see one gain: the end of Saddam Hussein, a murderous tyrant. Had the war not finished him he would, in all likelihood, have become another Gadafy or Castro; an oppressor of his own people but no longer a threat to the world. Iraq was on its knees after a decade of sanctions.

The elimination of weapons of mass destruction was the declared main aim of the war. It is improbable that the governments of the alliance could have sold the war to their parliaments on any other grounds. That they believed in the weapons' existence in the autumn of 2002 is understandable. Why had the Iraqis stopped UN inspectors during the 90s if they had nothing to hide? Responsibility for the war must rest, though, on what those launching it knew by March 2003.

By then, Unmovic inspectors had carried out some 700 inspections at 500 sites without finding prohibited weapons. The contract that George Bush held up before Congress to show that Iraq was purchasing uranium oxide was proved to be a forgery. The allied powers were on thin ice, but they preferred to replace question marks with exclamation marks.

They could not succeed in eliminating WMDs because they did not exist. Nor could they succeed in the declared aim to eliminate al-Qaida operators, because they were not in Iraq. They came later, attracted by the occupants. A third declared aim was to bring democracy to Iraq, hopefully becoming an example for the region. Let us hope for the future; but five years of occupation has clearly brought more anarchy than democracy.

Increased safety for Israel might have been an undeclared US aim. If so, it is hard to see that anything was gained by a war which has strengthened Iran.

There are other troubling legacies of the Iraq war. It is a setback in the world's efforts to develop legal restraints on the use of armed force between states. In 1945 the US helped to write into the UN charter a prohibition of the use of armed force against states. Exceptions were made only for self-defence against armed attacks and for armed force authorised by the security council. In 2003, Iraq was not a real or imminent threat to anybody. Instead, the invasion reflects a claim made in the 2002 US national security strategy that the charter was too restrictive, and that the US was ready to use armed force to meet threats that were uncertain as to time and place - a doctrine of preventive war.

In the 2004 presidential election campaign, Bush ridiculed any idea that the US would need to ask for a "permission slip" before taking military action against a "growing threat". True, the 2003 Iraq invasion is not the only case in which armed force has been used in disregard of the charter. However, from the most powerful member of the UN it is a dangerous signal. If preventive war is accepted for one, it is accepted for all.

One fear is that the UN rules ignored in the attack on Iraq will prove similarly insignificant in the case of Iran. But it may be that the spectacular failure of ensuring disarmament by force, and of introducing democracy by occupation, will work in favour of a greater use of diplomacy and "soft power". Justified concerns about North Korea and Iran have led the US, as well as China, Russia and European states, to examine what economic and other non-military inducements they may use to ensure that these two states do not procure nuclear weapons. Washington and Moscow must begin nuclear disarmament. So long as these nuclear states maintain that these weapons are indispensable to their security, it is not surprising that others may think they are useful. What, really, is the alternative: invasion and occupation, as in Iraq?

Hans Blix was head of UN inspections in Iraq in 2003 secretariat@wmdcommission.org

About this articleClose This article appeared in the Guardian on Thursday March 20 2008 on p41 of the Comment & debate section. It was last updated at 00:15 on March 20 2008.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2008, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bushfan View Post
...Appeasing socialists will only beget socialist power. They'e snakes and never to be trusted by anyone, at anytime or for any reason.
There you go with that "socialists" thing again.

Do you have to put it into every post whether it is relevant or not?
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