Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > General Political Chat > Political Opinions & Beliefs


View Poll Results: Is Government-authorized Slavery a Relevant 'Crime Against Humanity'?
Slavery is a 'crime against humanity' and is relevant today. 14 100.00%
Slavery is a 'crime against humanity' but is not relevant today. 0 0%
Slavery is not a 'crime against humanity' but is still relevant today. 0 0%
Slavery is not a 'crime against humanity' and is not relevant today. 0 0%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:47 AM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa County, Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 4,935
usa us ohio
heikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 19,039
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taomon View Post
No, if prison is too much of a cost burden on tax payers the first thing we should do is re-evalutae the laws that send so many (disaportionate amounts) of blacks and latins to prison.
If it costs too much to keep 'em in prison, we should make it easier and less expensive to execute 'em!
__________________
Theodore Lamar Heiks
BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
MBA, Entrepreneurship/Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:49 AM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa County, Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 4,935
usa us ohio
heikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 19,039
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taomon View Post
Selling drugs should not be an imprisonable crime unless the monetary intake is above $100,000 per year.
So, we should punish non-traditional pharmaceutical salespersons for becoming successful entrepreneurs? Hmm.
__________________
Theodore Lamar Heiks
BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
MBA, Entrepreneurship/Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 06:53 AM
heikstheo heikstheo is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa County, Ohio
Age: 46
Posts: 4,935
usa us ohio
heikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to beholdheikstheo is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 19,039
Icon3

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0000 View Post
what if the person's judgment is impaired at the time due to intoxication?
And who is to be the judge of impaired judgement?
__________________
Theodore Lamar Heiks
BA, History/Political Science, Western State College of Colorado, 1984
MBA, Entrepreneurship/Marketing, City University of Seattle, 1993
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 01:30 PM
Truth-Bringer's Avatar
Truth-Bringer Truth-Bringer is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5,153
usa us alabama
Truth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud ofTruth-Bringer has much to be proud of
Credits: 48,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
What about the “slavery” of BIG government?
That's the biggest crime in history.

Quote:
Slavery never ends, it simply finds new tactics and employs them through government.
Exactly.

Who Subtitle A Applies To

When one considers who the Subtitle A income taxes actually apply to, which is elected or appointed officials of the U.S. Government and officers, their "employer" is actually the U.S. Government, and certainly that government has a right to tell its own administrative employees that they must withhold if their employees volunteer for withholding using the IRS form W-4.

It would be hypocritical not to and beyond the authority of an administrative agency of the U.S. government to deny the right of Congress to expect them to withhold.

However, applying the same rules to private employers inside the 50 states on nonfederal land definitely is involuntary servitude, not to mention exceeds the jurisdiction of the U.S. government to assess income taxes. The U.S. supreme Court case of Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356 (1886) defined what slavery means:

"For the very idea that one man may be compelled to hold his life, or the means of living, or any material right essential to the enjoyment of life, at the mere will of another, seems to be intolerable in any country where freedom prevails, as being the essence of slavery itself."

This definition of slavery doesn’t mean total slavery, and includes simply having one’s time or property or labor usurped or stolen or one’s property rights infringed. We would argue then that compelled withholding by employers definitely amounts to slavery, or involuntary servitude. Even if it doesn’t meet the precise intent of the original purpose of the Thirteenth Amendment (which outlawed slavery), it is still slavery, as revealed in the following definitions of slavery in Merriam Webster’s Collegiate dictionary:

SLAVE

1: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another: BONDMAN

2: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence.

SLAVERY

1. drudgery, toil
2. submission to a dominating influence
3. a: the state of a person who is a chattel of another b: the practice of slaveholding.

The same dictionary then defines "servitude" as follows:

SERVITUDE

1. : a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life
2. : a right by which something (as a piece of land) owned by one person is subject to a specified use or enjoyment by another

From the above definition, you can see that servitude, or slavery, encompasses not only surrendering control of one’s body and time to another, but it also involves the right of use and beneficial enjoyment of one’s property as well. Servitude is a condition where we have been involuntarily deprived of liberty. Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, on page 1388 defines slavery as follows:

slavery: The condition of a slave; that civil relation in which one man has absolute power over the life, fortune, and liberty of another. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery.

slave: A person who is wholly subject to the will of another; one who has no freedom of action, but whose person and services are wholly under the control of another. One who is under the power of a master, and who belongs to him; so that the master may sell and dispose of his person, of his industry, and of his labor, without his being able to do anything, have anything, or acquire anything, but what must belong to his master. The 13th Amendment abolished slavery.

The condition of slavery is referred to in the U.S. Code, Title 18, Chapter 77 (sections 1581 through 158 as "peonage", which is defined as follows:

PEONAGE

1. a: the use of laborers bound in servitude because of debt b: a system of convict labor by which convicts are
2. : the condition of a peon.

PEON 3 a: a person held in compulsory servitude to a master for the working out of an indebtedness b: DRUDGE, MENIAL

Interestingly, would anyone argue that we aren’t peons who are slaves to the Federal Reserve and who owe income taxes to pay off the debts of the U.S. government to the privately owned Federal Reserve? If you look at former President Reagan’s Grace Commission Report, for instance, you find that the income tax doesn’t go to pay the expenses of the government.

Instead, it goes mainly to pay interest on the national debt to the Federal Reserve. Isn’t peonage against the law? But that’s what the U.S. Congress legalized when it nearly simultaneously passed the Federal Reserve Act and the Income Tax in 1913.

The two are linked together because if you are going to run up a big public debt, then peons are needed to pay it off.

THAT’S RIGHT - YOU’RE A PEON AND YOU DIDN’T EVEN KNOW IT!

However, 18 U.S.C §1581 makes peonage illegal:

Sec. 1581. Peonage; obstructing enforcement

* (a) Whoever holds or returns any person to a condition of peonage, or arrests any person with the intent of placing him in or returning him to a condition of peonage, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
* (b) Whoever obstructs, or attempts to obstruct, or in any way interferes with or prevents the enforcement of this section, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed in subsection (a).

Now do you understand why the IRS has no delegated authority directly linked to Congress and why there is no statute directly authorizing the establishment of the IRS? Because if Congress created one, the members of Congress could be held personally liable for violating the above law as well as constructively instituting "extortion under the color of office":

extortion under the color of office: "Unlawful taking by any officer by color of his office, of any money or thing of value, that is not due to him, or more than is due or before it is due." 4 Bla.Comm. 141; Com. v. Saulsbury, 152 Pa. 554,25 A. 610; U.S. v. Denver, D.C.N.C. 14 F. 595; Bush v. State, 19 Ariz. 195, 168 P. 508, 509

"Obtaining property from another, induced by wrongful use of force or fear, OR under color of official right." See State v. Logan, 104 La. 760, 29So. 336; In re Rempfer, 51 S.D. 393, 216 N.W. 355, 359, 55 A.L.R. 1346; Lee v. State, 16 Ariz. 291, 145 P. 244, 246,Ann.Cas. 1917B, 131. (Black’s Law Dictionary, Revised 4th Edition)

Notice that the key to being a slave is the absence of property rights, and the most sacred kind of property is one’s labor, as confirmed in the supreme Court case of Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746, 1883. Thomas Jefferson, the author of our Declaration of Independence, confirmed the foundation of our political system is the ownership and complete control over one’s property when he said the following:

"The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management." -- Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:36

"Nothing is ours, which another may deprive us of." --Thomas Jefferson to Maria Cosway, 1786. ME 5:440
__________________
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Schopenhauer
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 11:55 PM
0000's Avatar
0000 0000 is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 898
0000 is a jewel in the rough0000 is a jewel in the rough0000 is a jewel in the rough
Credits: 3,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
Put 'em to work so they can earn their keep!
fully agreed.
__________________
~0000~

Don't confuse me with the facts.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2008, 11:56 PM
0000's Avatar
0000 0000 is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 898
0000 is a jewel in the rough0000 is a jewel in the rough0000 is a jewel in the rough
Credits: 3,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heikstheo View Post
And who is to be the judge of impaired judgement?
the courts play this role.
__________________
~0000~

Don't confuse me with the facts.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 12:26 AM
withoutjudgement's Avatar
withoutjudgement withoutjudgement is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: me
Age: 97
Posts: 78
usa us district of columbia
withoutjudgement will become famous soon enough
Credits: 523
Default

ive always felt like a slave, toiling away 8 hrs a day, still barely able to pay rent.
indentured servants were paid food and shelter, the only thing i have up on them is a guitar.
this computer is my dads
__________________
try non-judgement, you wil be happier and healthier,

Last edited by withoutjudgement; 07-31-2008 at 12:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentagon and CIA: Authorized For Secret Ops In Pakistan BlueBlog Political Blogs 0 01-17-2008 10:47 PM
The reason Liberals are becoming less relevant... Gaar Political Opinions & Beliefs 88 07-26-2006 09:01 AM
I am not authorized barney-fife Forum Help, Feedback, Etc. 8 06-09-2006 05:58 AM
Rice authorized NSA to spy on UN Security Council in run-up ben-franklin Current Events 4 12-29-2005 03:10 PM
How relevant is the preamble? EiregoSod United States 2 03-25-2004 09:19 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden