Detailed Look at Obama’s Redistribution Plan - Page 7

raytri · #61 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anikdote

Yup based on what I've seen it's about 45%, but I still say that this offers enough of a plurality to evaluate the effects of it's adjustment against federal revenues. Nearly 50% ought to be enough to shift the percentage away from the 19.5%/GDP, but as we've seen the effects on total revenue based on this aspect of the equation is marginal.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Not only are adjustments in the marginal rates often offset by other changes elsewhere within the income tax system itself; when less than half of federal revenue comes from income tax, it's too easy for any net change in income-tax revenue to be swamped by changes in other areas of taxation.

Decker · #62 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anikdote

Could you please provide me with a link to this information? Thanks

Sure, you're welcome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_gains.jpg

Quote:

No, and moreover government revenue doesn't have to come directly from the pockets of tax payers, lowering marginal rates across the board allows for reinvestment and thus further tax payments in various other forms. As the economy grows so does federal revenue. So taxation isn't always the best solution to debt reduction. Furthermore if we take a closer look at our debt, you'll see that much of what we owe, is owed to ourselves, and could be rectified by:

A. Strengthening the dollar
B. Balancing the budget and reducing spending.

That sounds like supplyside economics. Tax cuts stimulate economic growth but not enough to pay for the cuts. By that I mean, tax cuts are always a net loss to the government.

Quote:

What always drives me crazy about this issue is that we'll blame everyone for this debt EXCEPT the people who made it. If we could reign in pork spending we'd make great strides towards debt reduction.

I agree. The problem is that people elect these politicians, in part, to 'bring home the bacon'. The people are getting what they deserve (to an extent).

Quote:

Those expiring tax cuts did not just apply to the rich. They apply to a large number of Americans and small business owners, myself included.

President Bush had the tax law written to expire to keep down the total cost of the tax cut package.

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The majority of the people that make up the 'wealthy' are small business owners reporting not just their personal income, but also the income from their business, BUT not less expenses. When you increases taxes on these individuals your increasing the cost of them to run their business, when costs go up, changes must be made to regain equilibrium, often times to achieve this goal, layoffs are the most adequate solution, that's bad for business and bad for the people working for the 'rich'

I would think that a modest wealth tax would be good--the kind Ed Wolff wrote about. In that instance, wealth is taxed and not income.

http://www.econ.nyu.edu/dept/vitae/wolff.htm

Anikdote · #63 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decker

Sure, you're welcome. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_gains.jpg

I saw this footnote and couldn't find the original source. But I won't refute it unless i can find something to the contrary.

Quote:

Inflation adjusted percentage increase in mean after-tax household income between 1979 and 2005.

Quote:

That sounds like supplyside economics.

Yup

Quote:

Tax cuts stimulate economic growth but not enough to pay for the cuts. By that I mean, tax cuts are always a net loss to the government.

That's isn't always true and I've cited information to the contrary. Rat doesn't like the information because of the reasons also cited but I think the trend is more what I'm focusing on rather than specific percentage loss or gains.

Quote:

I agree. The problem is that people elect these politicians, in part, to 'bring home the bacon'. The people are getting what they deserve (to an extent).

Agreed, most people will vote for the candidate that promises them the most "free stuff". This is a large part of the reason i support the fair tax, because it would essentially put an end to vote buying using the tax code.

Quote:

I would think that a modest wealth tax would be good--the kind Ed Wolff wrote about. In that instance, wealth is taxed and not income.

http://www.econ.nyu.edu/dept/vitae/wolff.htm

I'll take some time too look over this and try to remember to respond with my thoughts, but I'll preface it with the bias I have towards consumption taxes rather than income/wealth/flat tax systems.

Decker · #64 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anikdote

I saw this footnote and couldn't find the original source. But I won't refute it unless i can find something to the contrary.

Yup

That's isn't always true and I've cited information to the contrary. Rat doesn't like the information because of the reasons also cited but I think the trend is more what I'm focusing on rather than specific percentage loss or gains.

Agreed, most people will vote for the candidate that promises them the most "free stuff". This is a large part of the reason i support the fair tax, because it would essentially put an end to vote buying using the tax code.

I'll take some time too look over this and try to remember to respond with my thoughts, but I'll preface it with the bias I have towards consumption taxes rather than income/wealth/flat tax systems.

Just a reminder, that link for Wolff that I provided is curricular vitae. It lists his works but does not provide the text of his work.

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