Study: Openly gay soldiers don't undermine military

raytri · #1 (**permalink**) 07-07-2008, 10:07 PM

Well no duh:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/.../military_gays

Quote:

The study was conducted by four retired military officers, including the three-star Air Force lieutenant general who in early 1993 was tasked with implementing President Clinton's policy that the military stop questioning recruits on their sexual orientation.

"Evidence shows that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly is unlikely to pose any significant risk to morale, good order, discipline or cohesion," the officers states.

To support its contention, the panel points to the British and Israeli militaries, where it says gay people serve openly without hurting the effectiveness of combat operations.

And here's the real harm to cohesion and discipline:

Quote:

Navy Vice Adm. Jack Shanahan said he had no opinion on the issue when he joined the panel, having never confronted it in his 35-year military career. A self-described Republican who opposes the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war, Shanahan said he was struck by the loss of personal integrity required by individuals to carry out "don't ask, don't tell."

"Everyone was living a big lie — the homosexuals were trying to hide their sexual orientation and the commanders were looking the other way because they didn't want to disrupt operations by trying to enforce the law," he said.

It's time to let gays serve without having to hide.

Tehran Tim · #2 (**permalink**) 07-07-2008, 10:08 PM

"Duh" was exactly my reaction too.

Giorgio · #3 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 01:46 AM

There's some great articles by Elizabeth Kier on the effect of homosexuals on combat motivation, where she ties it in to similar inclusions in the military, for example of blacks, then of women. In both cases everyone was surprised how well everyone managed to work together, when they expected group cohesion to fall apart.

The real issue for combat motivation is not primary group cohesion, i.e., chumminess and camaraderie of boys and men in a platoon, as was originally thought following WWII. It is the professionalism and the TASK cohesion of the army that matters.

Truth-Bringer · #4 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

"Everyone was living a big lie — the homosexuals were trying to hide their sexual orientation and the commanders were looking the other way because they didn't want to disrupt operations by trying to enforce the law," he said.

It obvious how policies like this get started - because our politicians are liars - so they have no problem compromising in a dishonest way.

North Pole Resident · #5 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:33 AM

Americans, can you tell me why is gay question is such a big issue in your country?
I find gay topics on each and every discussion board. What's the deal here?

Herkdriver · #6 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raytri

Well no duh:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080708/.../military_gays

I already posted that article on another thread.

Liberty · #7 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:41 AM

No data? No facts? No methodology? The "study" seems hardly worth discussing. For all we know, it's simply the opinion of four retired military officers.

Herkdriver · #8 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty

No data? No facts? No methodology? The "study" seems hardly worth discussing. For all we know, it's simply the opinion of four retired military officers.

Is there a link to the study?
I thought the same thing.

Çaka · #9 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:47 AM

I think, gays derogate from military's dignity.

raytri · #10 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty

No data? No facts? No methodology? The "study" seems hardly worth discussing. For all we know, it's simply the opinion of four retired military officers.

Here's the report:
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/acti...408spreads.pdf

And here's an update: 52 retired generals and admirals urging the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" and instead letting gays serve openly:
http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt...all_for_repeal

I haven't had time to read the study yet.

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