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Old 07-09-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hendrixpujols11 View Post
So you are saying gay marriage and abortion should be legal?
I'm not saying that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want to. Your right to do what you want stops at another person's right to do what they want. Killing someone shouldn't be legal, because it deprives the right to life of another person, and so abortion should not be legal either.

But equal rights for gays are a must.

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The concept of universalized healthcare, for example, is not an issue of government making decisions for them. It's a matter of being able to afford basic healthcare.
It is an issue because the government makes a decision for the people who pay for that universal healthcare. You are forced to pay, you don't get a choice, there's no freedom in that kind of system.
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Originally Posted by Skinny. View Post
A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaro View Post
Libertarianism is such a rational political philosophy that they attract a whopping one or two percent of the population since it was invented.
20% of the population thinks that the sun goes around the earth. Are they rational?
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A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

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Old 07-09-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
I'm not saying that everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want to. Your right to do what you want stops at another person's right to do what they want. Killing someone shouldn't be legal, because it deprives the right to life of another person, and so abortion should not be legal either.

But equal rights for gays are a must.



It is an issue because the government makes a decision for the people who pay for that universal healthcare. You are forced to pay, you don't get a choice, there's no freedom in that kind of system.
But we are in a country trying to ensure the welfare of ALL its citizens not just the ones who can afford it.
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
But we are in a country trying to ensure the welfare of ALL its citizens not just the ones who can afford it.
Regardless of the country's intentions, they are forcing people to do things against their will.
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Originally Posted by Skinny. View Post
A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

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Old 07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
Regardless of the country's intentions, they are forcing people to do things against their will.
I thought you loved the constitution take a quick look at the preamble and the 16th amendment and you shoul be perfectly fine with what I'm saying
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
Sure

1. Gun control-I take the position that 4 of our 9 justices of the supreme court took. That basically we dont need a well regulated militia any longer therefore not needing to guarantee the right of arms. That obviously isnt exactly what our justices said. But they voted for D.C s right to ban guns.

I stand with the other 5 justices. Gun ownership is inalienable; people should be able to own guns to hunt, target shoot, or, when needed, overthrow our government

2.Economics- I'm a Keynesian nuff said really.

Free market capitalism. That's it.

3.Foreign policy-I dont support non interventionism as a proper way to uphold peace and security.

Entangling alliances create poor situations for America. Our government doesn't have the right or the money to intervene in sovereign nations.

4. I believe Campaign finance is able to be to be heavily regulated not necessarily that i always support it but i believe that as money imo is not speech it is perfectly acceptable to regulate it.

This is something I don't really know that much about, but I believe that since campaigning is done primarily through expensive media sources--internet, TV, etc--there should be some sort of cap on spending. I need to explore this topic a lot more, so ignore me

5.Drugs-I dont want them legalized not even marijuana by legalizing after in the past saying its bad we condone it. Parents try to keep drugs from their kids why make it harder for them?I must admit i got that particular idea about parents from the West Wing ( such a good show)

Legalize marijuana. Parents should teach there kids their own views--but the kids have the right to make up their minds. Experimentation with non-lethal drugs should not land anyone in jail--its their prerogative.

6.Healthcare- I support universalized healthcare.

I support free market healthcare.

7.I support the idea of welfare i realize our particular system has many flaws but i think that there is alot to lose by getting rid of it. I believe helping the less fortunate is admirable and necessary to society.

We can help the poor a lot more by cutting a ton of government spending and not making it more profitable to be on welfare than to work.

obviously i can expand further but these are some of the basics.Hope it helps.
Thanks.

I generally test out libertarian with the litmus is applied, so I'll try and provide my (uninformed) side of each of these...
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
I thought you loved the constitution take a quick look at the preamble and the 16th amendment and you shoul be perfectly fine with what I'm saying
The 5th came before the 16th, and just because they added an amendment doesn't make the laws derived from that particular amendment just.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

No person should be deprived of his life, liberty, or property without due process of law regardless of whether or not it's in the Constitution. The same goes for private property taken for public use without equal compensation.
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Originally Posted by Skinny. View Post
A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
The 5th came before the 16th, and just because they added an amendment doesn't make the laws derived from that particular amendment just.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

No person should be deprived of his life, liberty, or property without due process of law regardless of whether or not it's in the Constitution. The same goes for private property taken for public use without equal compensation.
look at the preamble see what it says and it doesnt matter that the 5th came first the 16th was voted in. The 5th and 16th exist together its not taken from them unlawfully( property i mean) the 16th says so.
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CptnRodent View Post
Thanks.

I generally test out libertarian with the litmus is applied, so I'll try and provide my (uninformed) side of each of these...
Well thanks for providing you polite opinion i see that we disagree on all but campaign finance which you dont have an opinion on
i respect your opinions on all these issues i just dont happen to agree with any of them.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
look at the preamble see what it says and it doesnt matter that the 5th came first the 16th was voted in. The 5th and 16th exist together its not taken from them unlawfully( property i mean) the 16th says so.
There's no question to whether or not the government can do it by its own laws, I'm not saying that the government is currently violating the constitution.

I'm saying that that amendment shouldn't be part of the constitution to begin with. The original spirit of the Constitution was derived from Lockean natural law, and that is what the government should follow today as well. The government should not be able to take away a person's life, liberty, or property.
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--Murray Rothbard
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Originally Posted by Skinny. View Post
A liberal is just a libertarian who hasn't studied economics.

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