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Old 07-09-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
Well thanks for providing you polite opinion i see that we disagree on all but campaign finance which you dont have an opinion on
i respect your opinions on all these issues i just dont happen to agree with any of them.
Fair enough. I'm going to politely sit on the sideline now. White Fox is much more qualified to argue any libertarian points than I.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hendrixpujols11 View Post
Libertarianism is the most idealistic and out of touch ideology I can think of. The idea of letting the people do what they want with little to no government interference is plain stupid.
What you're describing is more like anarchism, which I agree is idealistic and out of touch with reality.

Libertarianism is better than that, in most ways. It's only unrealistic when taken to extremes -- which, unfortunately, the current Libertarian Party does.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CptnRodent View Post
Fair enough. I'm going to politely sit on the sideline now. White Fox is much more qualified to argue any libertarian points than I.
You sure you dont wanna help him? I mean from what i can tell he isnt perticularly qualified he seems to be saying that the constitution isnt in the spirit of the constitution.Ither that or he thinks he can decide what of the constitution to accept and what to reject
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by White Fox View Post
20% of the population thinks that the sun goes around the earth. Are they rational?
Of course not. But libertarianism is soooooooooo irrational, it can't even attract the flat-earthers.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
1. Gun control-I take the position that 4 of our 9 justices of the supreme court took. That basically we dont need a well regulated militia any longer therefore not needing to guarantee the right of arms. That obviously isnt exactly what our justices said. But they voted for D.C s right to ban guns.
So basically, you're just bitterly holding to what a MINORITY of justices voted on? Funny how you key on the first part of the amendment (the part about a militia, but you totally discredit the second part (stating that the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.) That's not a "conditional" line. It's absolute. The "right" shall not be infringed.
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2.Economics- I'm a Keynesian nuff said really.
But isn't the biggest tenet of Keynesian economics a lowering of interest rates? That goes against your own liberalism.
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3.Foreign policy-I dont support non interventionism as a proper way to uphold peace and security.
I have to agree with you there. Total non-interventionism is a sure way to war...after being attacked by outside forces.
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4. I believe Campaign finance is able to be to be heavily regulated not necessarily that i always support it but i believe that as money imo is not speech it is perfectly acceptable to regulate it.
I don't think libertarians really care about this. However, heavy regulation seems more of a liberal notion to me, actually.
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5.Drugs-I dont want them legalized not even marijuana by legalizing after in the past saying its bad we condone it. Parents try to keep drugs from their kids why make it harder for them?I must admit i got that particular idea about parents from the West Wing ( such a good show)
You're basing your ideas on a fictional television show? Legalizing (and taxing) certain drugs is not a bad thing, as long as there are strict laws in place to effectively deal with those who commit crimes while under the influence. This is the basis of the libertarian view.
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6.Healthcare- I support universalized healthcare.
Socialist health care has proven to be ineffective. The only folks who support this, are the failures of society who would rather spend their money on creature comforts, rather than necessities, and the dregs who are an economic drain on society anyway.
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7.I support the idea of welfare i realize our particular system has many flaws but i think that there is alot to lose by getting rid of it. I believe helping the less fortunate is admirable and necessary to society.
There's a BIG difference between "the less fortunate" and "leeches." The libertarian perspective is that people are only as successful as the limits they impose on themselves. If you're a loser who sponges off the government, then that's the restriction you put on yourself. Stop being a bum, and go get a job.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
I wake up every single morning with the thankful knowledge I'm not a libertarian!No hah not really dont anyone become to irate that was mostly a joke.what i really do want to say is that idealogically im probably the biggest opposite of a libertarian in political tests i usually come out a statist or a liberal, ( even though im no statist) I dont side with libertarians on gun control, economics, foreign policy, campaign finance, drugs , healthcare, welfare, and almost anything else imaginable. But at he same time I'm interested in hearing arguments for or against libertarianism on any issue just to open up some good discussion on this political ideology.
Easy, you have a problem with FREEDOM! as simple as that.

Libertarian=Freedom
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TM2 View Post
I dont side with libertarians on gun control, economics, foreign policy, campaign finance, drugs , healthcare, welfare, and almost anything else imaginable.
To each his own.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ABoyNamedSue View Post
There's a BIG difference between "the less fortunate" and "leeches."
How would you define the distinction? I get the impression that conservatives and Libertarians alike tend to see them as exactly the same.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ABoyNamedSue View Post
So basically, you're just bitterly holding to what a MINORITY of justices voted on? Funny how you key on the first part of the amendment (the part about a militia, but you totally discredit the second part (stating that the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.) That's not a "conditional" line. It's absolute. The "right" shall not be infringed.
But isn't the biggest tenet of Keynesian economics a lowering of interest rates? That goes against your own liberalism.
I have to agree with you there. Total non-interventionism is a sure way to war...after being attacked by outside forces.
I don't think libertarians really care about this. However, heavy regulation seems more of a liberal notion to me, actually.
You're basing your ideas on a fictional television show? Legalizing (and taxing) certain drugs is not a bad thing, as long as there are strict laws in place to effectively deal with those who commit crimes while under the influence. This is the basis of the libertarian view.
Socialist health care has proven to be ineffective. The only folks who support this, are the failures of society who would rather spend their money on creature comforts, rather than necessities, and the dregs who are an economic drain on society anyway.
There's a BIG difference between "the less fortunate" and "leeches." The libertarian perspective is that people are only as successful as the limits they impose on themselves. If you're a loser who sponges off the government, then that's the restriction you put on yourself. Stop being a bum, and go get a job.
1.Gun control- the reason some believe the amendment was created was for civilian militias which are no longer necessary so it shouldnt be uninfringable
2. Economics- You dont understand Keynesian economics. A huge point of it is to deal with deficient demand through fiscal and monetary policy(which yes involves low interest rats) but the government does that therefore your freemarket friends dont like Keynesian economics. That was oversimplifying it i know.
3.you dont disagree with me so i wont press the point.
4.They probably dont but i as a liberal very much do.
5.drugs- of course im not basing my ideal of a television show. I got that particular line about parents from there i got the idea from common sense and liberal politicians
6.Healthcare- You have no idea there are places in Europe where it works the economy does have to be strong enough to handle it i agree but our country meets that requirement research certain Euro countries with this healthcare and you will see.
7. Welfare- I dont see the solution to leeches as getting rid of the whole thing.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2008, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Guy Fawkes View Post
Easy, you have a problem with FREEDOM! as simple as that.

Libertarian=Freedom
Not really as simple as that. <<< Mod Edit: Personal Insult Removed >>>

Last edited by ABoyNamedSue; 07-09-2008 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Easy with that temper, please.
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