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Old 07-14-2008, 06:28 AM
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Default "Stupid Voters" Why is the Flag so Important?

I find myself nodding in agreement regarding Rick Shenkman's writings. Myths are nice and important to our lives but having them questioned is so unsettling. Especially if you add this great tool called the internet in which you can actually look up your details. This can be scary stuff to some of our basic beliefs when our heroes are shown to be pretty human.

But don't be afraid to look for the truth no matter where it leads ya!



Quote:
Why Is the Flag so Important?
by Rick Shenkman


In a recent Gallup Poll Americans were asked how they define patriotism. Not surprisingly the familiar divisions of the culture war surfaced in the answers people gave. Democrats, for example, were about twice as likely as Republicans to consider the expression of dissent a sign of patriotism.

What the poll showed is that Americans have as varied a definition of patriotism as they do of freedom. But even more interesting to me as a historian is the common underlying assumption of the members of both parties that symbols like patriotism matter.

Why do symbols like flag pins, much in the news of late, count so much that presidential candidate Barack Obama felt the need to explain why he didn't wear one? [Now he does.] And why do we feel so strongly about the flag that both Democrats and Republicans try to claim ownership of it?

The answer is that myths drive our politics. Less interested in facts than we think we are, we respond most powerfully to politicians when they are using myths. Myths are the sheet music of American politics. Politicians feed them into an all-American player piano, out of which comes what sounds like music to voters' ears.

Behind every good speech a politician gives is one myth or another. Few myths are as powerful as the ones involving patriotism. These make our spirits soar. Politicians like Ronald Reagan, who master the music of the myths of patriotism, create such a strong bond with voters that millions of us are willing to follow them even when we disagree with specific policies they embrace.

Think of all the great moments in Reagan's presidency—when in 1986 he gave his stirring speech on the anniversary of the flood-lighted Statue of Liberty in New York harbor or a year later when he beseeched Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev to "tear down this wall"—and you see at work a maestro playing on our deepest emotional impulses.

Why are we so susceptible to myths? Two factors account for it. One has to do with our specific history as a nation of immigrants. As a people lacking a common ancestry, only our myths unite us. They help define who we are as a people and the values we cherish. Flag myths in particular appeal to us because of our deep-seated fear that our diversity may be a weakness rather than a strength. It's no coincidence that the American infatuation with the flag began in the 1890s when millions of immigrants began arriving. Worried that they would not readily abandon their loyalties to their homeland, old-stock Americans began posting flags in classrooms and asking students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

The other factor has to do with the fundamental fact that in our mass democracy the majority does not know enough about politics to engage in a sustained and serious debate about issues. To cite two examples: only 35 percent know Congress can override a veto. Only 30 percent ever knew that William Rehnquist was conservative. And 49 percent think the President can suspend the Constitution. In the absence of facts, myths fill the vacuum. Only when facts become inescapable, as the fact of $4-a-gallon gas has recently, do the voters look up and take notice.

In a world in which myths rule, Republicans have an advantage over Democrats—or have had at any rate since the era of Reagan. He taught Republicans how to use myths to appeal to voters. No Democrat has been similarly gifted in the use of myths (though Obama, who sells his life story as a classic American myth, might be the exception). While Republicans have been playing on our myths, Democrats have been insisting politics is rational—a losing strategy in a nation of voters allergic to facts.

Like them or not, myths are here to stay. So how can you protect yourself? It is not myths per se that get us into trouble. It is our inability to see them. So seeing them is key. It is when we don't that we are then left vulnerable to impulses we neither understand nor recognize. Like stereotypes, the myths shape our thinking in preconceived ways, letting in some facts and blocking others. Myths in effect give us grand narratives to help arrange the unordered events of the world into coherent patterns. These patterns—narratives, if you will—help make the world understandable even if the pattern is false in whole or in part.
What we need in effect, then, is a good pair of X-ray glasses (and the courage to put them on). If we can see the myths, we can deal with them head-on. And we can see them easily enough by putting them in historical context. Only when myths seem to stand outside history are they abstract and overpowering.

So the next time you see politicians wrapping themselves in the flag, figuratively reach for those X-ray glasses. With them in hand you'll be able to see right through whatever patriotic myths politicians are exploiting.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
I find myself nodding in agreement regarding Rick Shenkman's writings. Myths are nice and important to our lives but having them questioned is so unsettling. Especially if you add this great tool called the internet in which you can actually look up your details. This can be scary stuff to some of our basic beliefs when our heroes are shown to be pretty human.

But don't be afraid to look for the truth no matter where it leads ya!



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On the flip side, shwing affection for the flag is the equivalent of showing affection for our nation and the principles it was founded on. Shying away from display of the flag is a MAJOR RED FLAG!

it seems that "liberals" have deemed the American flag as something to be embarrassed about and something you should never be caught dead displaying or celebrating. That to me is a sign of rejection of the founding principles of our nation and I cannot ally myself with any group that chooses to adopt this view.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
On the flip side, shwing affection for the flag is the equivalent of showing affection for our nation and the principles it was founded on. Shying away from display of the flag is a MAJOR RED FLAG!

it seems that "liberals" have deemed the American flag as something to be embarrassed about and something you should never be caught dead displaying or celebrating. That to me is a sign of rejection of the founding principles of our nation and I cannot ally myself with any group that chooses to adopt this view.

Slavish attention to symbols while ignoring what the symbols actually symbolize is a trait of fascists.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
it seems that "liberals" have deemed the American flag as something to be embarrassed about and something you should never be caught dead displaying or celebrating. That to me is a sign of rejection of the founding principles of our nation and I cannot ally myself with any group that chooses to adopt this view.
What liberals are you talking about?
Most liberals don't think you need to wave a flag to be patriotic and most are skeptical of movements that involve "flag-waving" to garner support... but I'm not aware of too many liberals who are embarrassed by the flag.

As for the article, it's on point. And it goes much farther than just the flag. A lot of America's "history" is mythic in character.
Sometimes this stuff is collectively referred t oby anthropologists as "civil religion" and it carries many of the same traits as religion in general, both good and bad.

On the good side, the flag and the national anthem can invoke feelings of pride in what the country stands for and give us a feeling of greater community.
But like with religion, it can cause huge conflict between groups that see "what the flag means" in different ways. The conflicts are almost identical to those seen between different sects of religion.
Looking closer, our major historical figures have been placed in such a manner as to invoke Judeo-Christian imagery. Note the similarities in Washington as a mythic figure to Moses, the Constitution to the Ten Commandments, Lincoln to Jesus... Don't take it too literal. I'm not saying people believe Lincoln is Jesus... but his mythic self is spoken of in similar terms.

Here's a bit of background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Whaler17 View Post
On the flip side, shwing affection for the flag is the equivalent of showing affection for our nation and the principles it was founded on. Shying away from display of the flag is a MAJOR RED FLAG!

it seems that "liberals" have deemed the American flag as something to be embarrassed about and something you should never be caught dead displaying or celebrating. That to me is a sign of rejection of the founding principles of our nation and I cannot ally myself with any group that chooses to adopt this view.
Great! You answer an article about myth making with a myth! Did you read the article about the founding fathers attitude toward the flag?

US Flag Not Always Seen As A Sacred Symbol

What I feel is that people should have more respect for the actual citizens the flag is supposed to represent. Flying the flag and telling each other to get (*)(*)(*)(*)ed is not what patriotism is all about.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Ziggae_6 View Post
Great! You answer an article about myth making with a myth! Did you read the article about the founding fathers attitude toward the flag?

US Flag Not Always Seen As A Sacred Symbol

What I feel is that people should have more respect for the actual citizens the flag is supposed to represent. Flying the flag and telling each other to get (*)(*)(*)(*)ed is not what patriotism is all about.
So saying that the flag is a symbol of what our nation's founding principles are is perpetuating a myth eh? So what does the flag stand for then?

I do not disagree that people should respect each other, but what does that have to do with what the flag represents, other than one main founding principle is that all men are created equal!

So what is the myth I am perpetuating? That all men are created equal?

My post said nothing about how closely we have adhered to our founding principles. Clearly we have ventured far from them at times, but that has nothing to do with the flag.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:46 AM
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So saying that the flag is a symbol of what our nation's founding principles are is perpetuating a myth eh? So what does the flag stand for then?

I do not disagree that people should respect each other, but what does that have to do with what the flag represents, other than one main founding principle is that all men are created equal!

So what is the myth I am perpetuating? That all men are created equal?

My post said nothing about how closely we have adhered to our founding principles. Clearly we have ventured far from them at times, but that has nothing to do with the flag.
Pretty funny stuff. You change your argument to something else. What myth are you perpetrating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
shwing affection for the flag is the equivalent of showing affection for our nation and the principles it was founded on
Its not! "Acting" on the principles and accepting them is more effective than showing affection for the flag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whaler17
"liberals" have deemed the American flag as something to be embarrassed about and something you should never be caught dead displaying or celebrating.
That's a myth and your perpetrating that myth actually is showing that you don't understand the concept of free speech or free thinking. It bothers me that someone would think showing affection for a piece of cloth equals showing affection for your nation which is both "liberal" "conservative" and whatever. You would show more by trying to understand all views instead of simply twisting them to fit your own view. How is respecting different points of view equal twisting them to appear less patriotic? Reread the article again and you will see yourself.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:00 AM
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The American flag is the representation of the sacrifices made by those who fought and gave all for freedom. IMHO. The statement that freedom isn't free is so true! So many americans take it for granted that the freedoms we so value, comes easily from those armchair quarterbacks who have invested nothing into their country but complaints.
The flag for many represents the foundation of the new experiment in the world that allowed the people to rule their government. So many have died to preserve our nations freedom, the flag stands as the emblem of that sacrifice.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:55 AM
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The flag is a symbol of America, those who wear the pin are showing their allegiance and in some way showing their affection to the country and the people who live here. It also serves as a reminder of where we came from.
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:58 AM
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The flag is a symbol of America, those who wear the pin are showing their allegiance and in some way showing their affection to the country and the people who live here. It also serves as a reminder of where we came from.
...or, it's a way of saying, "LOOKEE HERE! ME SO PATRIOTICKER THAN YOU!"
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