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Old 07-16-2008, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sparky Farkas View Post
Feckin-A! That is precisely how hosed up "Cheese" Dick Cheney, President Codpiece and their minions were/are. No one said we got less oil before Bush's War. You are making an argument that at this point no one has forwarded. In fact I agree, more oil before the war. And your point re oil before/after Bush's War is?????????
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Originally Posted by Sparky Farkas
Iraq was not our enemy. We just wanted their oil.
We were already getting their oil. And we were getting more of it than we are now. So your statement is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Sparky Farkas View Post
Oh, OK, then it will have been worth the lives of hundreds of thousands Iraqis, over 4,000 American GIs, 3 trillion dollars and boat loads of American good will and diplomacy.
We should have finished the job during the Persian Gulf War instead of leaving that genocidal despot in control of Iraq.

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Originally Posted by Sparky Farkas View Post
Yeah, when you are into empire building that is pretty much it. They do what we tell them, when we tell them, and how we tell them. WE decide how THEY run their p*ssant democracy, eh? "Just tell me you had a great night and I'll leave quietly."
Empire - A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
Now what is one of the goals of the United States in Iraq... ah yes, to get the Iraqi government to a point where they can operate and defend themselves with complete autonomy. Therefore, not part of an empire and not empire building.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MrRelevant View Post
Surrender:
to yield to the power, control, or possession of another upon compulsion or demand

When withdrawral is based on ANYTHING but military assessments in the country, on the ground,this definition fits nicely.

The US military has the control now-to give it away at the behest of public opinion or the need to attain political office is surrender.
Surrender: intended to yield power, control or possession of another upon compulsion or demand of the opposition... not the counterpart.

The U.S. would be turning over the control of the region to a sovereign nation, not Al Qaeda. Military assessment has revealed the surge worked. Violence is down considerably, and Iraqi Forces are better able to police their own. This is not surrender... because surrender is giving control to the enemy.
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