I thought I'd create plenty of room (with bold, italic, and underline text options) for explaining an important topic.

I've read threads that express "Success in Iraq" & "The Surge worked!"

So, explain defeat in Iraq.

How do we surrender to an enemy that has been defeated?
How are we defeated by an enemy that has fallen to our surge?
How is a time-table labeled "structured surrender" when their own leader calls for it?
if time-tables are bad, how is McCain able to determine/predict our troops out by 2013?
Why does that conveniently fall around the time of a re-election?

I guess I said all that to say

Define: defeat and surrender in Iraq with reasonable explanation for debate.

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Defeat is being forced to leave Iraq by some external pressure; like a severely increased insurgency, direct Iranian intervention, or some-such. Leaving by some specified future date is by no means "defeat" or "surrender."

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I refuse to trade humanity for patriotism.

How do we surrender to an enemy that has been defeated? Iraq was not our enemy. We just wanted their oil.

How are we defeated by an enemy that has fallen to our surge? We don't know that they have "fallen to our surge". It may be that they have decided to fall back and regroup. I doubt they are emailing their intentions to the White House.

How is a time-table labeled "structured surrender" when their own leader calls for it? Because Washingto paid the son of a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) say what they wanted him to say.

if time-tables are bad, how is McCain able to determine/predict our troops out by 2013? McCain has the brains of a large rabbit. Beyond that we will have to wait till 2013 to find out if McCain is correct. By then McCain will be sitting in a rocking chair at the drool farm.


Why does that conveniently fall around the time of a re-election? It won't mean diddly by the time 2013 arrives.

I guess I said all that to say - Define: defeat and surrender in Iraq with reasonable explanation for debate. "You can't spend what you ain't got and you can't lose what you ain't never had" ~ Muddy Waters

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You, you, and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.

Last book read: "The Gate House" ~ NelsonDeMille
Now reading: "Nam-A-Rama" ~ Phillip Jennings

I know.

So that would mean we'd have to stay wherever we go.

I doubt Bush would pay him to say that lol

That's not change we can believe in

noted

__________________
Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

Oh please. We got more oil from Iraq before the Iraq War than we do now. Would it kill you to actually look up facts?

When the Iraqi government asks us to leave and we leave then it would not be defeat or surrender.
Or, if they don't as us, when the US decides that the level of violence in Iraq has reached a low enough level or believes that the government of Iraq will be able to handle the level of violence and the US decides to leave, then it would not be defeat or surrender.

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When we fled Vietnam. Preident Nixon called it a Victory, and said that we had achieved "Peace with Honor.

I wonder what new phrase will be for our defeat in Iraq.

well I invited those who constantly refer to leaving Iraq "defeat & surrender"...

so far there's been nothing.

__________________
Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

That's exactly what Obama is doing when he tells the world he plans to withdraw and go home. Al-queda already knows that an Obama led America will surrender. Heck, that's better than an e-mail.

there's that word again!

whats surrender... and provide proof he plans to do so.

__________________
Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

Oh please. We got more oil from Iraq before the Iraq War than we do now. Would it kill you to actually look up facts?

Feckin-A! That is precisely how hosed up "Cheese" Dick Cheney, President Codpiece and their minions were/are. No one said we got less oil before Bush's War. You are making an argument that at this point no one has forwarded. In fact I agree, more oil before the war. And your point re oil before/after Bush's War is?????????

When the Iraqi government asks us to leave and we leave then it would not be defeat or surrender.

Oh, OK, then it will have been worth the lives of hundreds of thousands Iraqis, over 4,000 American GIs, 3 trillion dollars and boat loads of American good will and diplomacy.

Or, if they don't as us, when the US decides that the level of violence in Iraq has reached a low enough level or believes that the government of Iraq will be able to handle the level of violence and the US decides to leave, then it would not be defeat or surrender.

Yeah, when you are into empire building that is pretty much it. They do what we tell them, when we tell them, and how we tell them. WE decide how THEY run their p*ssant democracy, eh? "Just tell me you had a great night and I'll leave quietly."

__________________
You, you, and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.

Last book read: "The Gate House" ~ NelsonDeMille
Now reading: "Nam-A-Rama" ~ Phillip Jennings