From what I have seen online, 2 to 3 years is a realistic time frame to erect a refinery. This is from a casual search...I cannot find a definitive source.

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My Political Blog (Most recent update Oct 3rd) - Which Flame Warrior are you?

I doubt it takes longer to build a refinery than it took us to get to the moon after Kennedy's proclamation.

Of course, that assumes that the Dems don't block us every step of the way and make their criticisms of the time tables involved a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not saying that adding alternatives would remove gas. That's not what I'm saying at all.

Here's what I'm saying:

We currently rely primarily on oil and natural gas. Let's do everything we can to lower the prices of oil and gas in the short and medium terms so that the average American consumer suffers less financially.

Let's also do what we can to bring alternative energies up to speed as quickly as economically reasonable to do so.

I'm all about giving the American consumer as much opportunity and as many choices for energy consumption as possible. That will lower the prices of everything. However, we should also do as much as we can to lower the individual prices of those different options of energy by increasing the supply.

That means we should be pushing everything at once. Let's build as many solar panels, dams, tidal energy receptors, windmills, coal plants, nuclear plants, and drill as many holes in the ground [including the groud below the oceans] as we can.

Let's just do everything so we can achieve low prices and energy independence as quickly as possible. I'm sick of hearing the concept that we shouldn't pursue one method or the other because another is superior. I say let the corporate sector pursue them all and let the market sort out what provides the best products. That's America baby!

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“It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.” - Father Dennis Edward O’Brien, USMC

God Bless America

Reserves are by definition "in the ground."

Quote:

Oil reserves are the estimated quantities of crude oil that are claimed to be recoverable under existing economic and operating conditions.[1] Many oil producing nations do not reveal their reservoir engineering field data, and instead provide unsubstantiated claims for their oil reserves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves

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"Conservatives" believe it is okay to kill innocent men, women and children, but not a zygote.

I think it's time we stopped bickering and started looking for real solutions.

http://www.pickensplan.com/

IT'S TIME TO STOP AMERICA'S ADDICTION TO FOREIGN OIL

America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war.

I've been an oil man all my life, but this is one emergency we can't drill our way out of. But if we create a new renewable energy network, we can break our addiction to foreign oil.

On January 20, 2009, a new President gets sworn in. If we're organized, we can convince Congress to make major changes towards cleaner, cheaper and domestic energy resources.

To get this done, I need your help. Check out the plan. If you think it's worth fighting for, please join our effort

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You know all that stuff you learned from listening to Rush Limbaugh and Bill ORielly? It's all a lie. Pass it on.

And you are not facing reality. There are only three options to lower prices for consumers today.
1) Release some of our reserves - that's why we have them

2) Subsidize - That's what the Chinese are doing and that is why their demand is skyrocketing - sending our prices higher

3) Regulation - price caps....I'm not a fan of this but it's one of the few options


Read my Original post - first we need to explore to find the best reserves (structural traps for the hydrocarbons - like underneath salt domes) - then we need to drill production wells, then we need to develop the wells and bring them into production - then transport and arefine the crude. How long do you the the exploration will take? then constructing the drilling platforms? then actually drilling the wells...and on and on.

Opening up ANWR to drilling will NOT affect the supply and demend of gas in this country. Yeah, crude comodities might drop for a few weeks in the market, but that is just the psychological part. In reality there will no more gas for years.



Let's say we do start drilling in ANWR...How mu8ch is that going to cost to bring up to production? How will the oil robber barons recoup those costs? - Fromt he consumer by increasing prices


Further, let's say it only takes 7 years (which is very generous to your argument - because some estimates are as high as 18 years) to get new oil to the market. What is the world demand going to look like at that point? How will that have already affect prices, while we're all sitting around with our thumbs up our arses waiting for this miracle reserve.


Further, how long is that ANWR field going to last? At what production rate? It's not the silver bullet that the right is making it out to be.


So I reiterate. There are only 3 ways to actually help the consumer, and all 3 of them involve government action - not just letting the capitalist pigs rape our land....which brings up another point. That is US soil....other than BLM claim fees, who gets compensated for the billions of dollars of oil they would be stealing from the Country's natural resources? Nobody - instead they line their pockets with profit they steal from the American people.

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"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth"
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
-JFK

Knight Errant of the Simian Order
Truth - Justice - Comedy

Bill Clinton gave the same reasons for not drilling 12 years ago. At some point we have to realize that we do have to prepare for the long term. I'm in the oil business so I'm familiar with the time tables involved. I think most of the estimates which are greater than 10 years are simply not accurate.

Furthermore, should we apply the same logic to alternative energy? Should we disregard research and development of types of energy production simply because they won't be ready for 8-15 years? Of course not; that would be foolish.

The pipeline is already in place in ANWR with wells already drilled but capped.

Oil is not a long term solution; it's a relatively short term solution to get us to the time when we are ready to implement alternative energy on a widespread basis. I see no evidence that we will be ready for the next 10-15 years; therefore we should drill now.

Our reserves are miniscule compared to the total demand. However, you underestimate the impact of the futures market which currently makes up roughly 25% of the current price of oil, give or take a few points. That market would be very hard hit should it become aware of our intentions to supply large amounts of domestic oil in the next 10 years. Just look at what happened to the price of oil when Bush announced the removal of the ban. It may just be mental but it works and it is real.

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“It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.” - Father Dennis Edward O’Brien, USMC

God Bless America

Looks good.. I agree with most of it. Not so keen on using NG to power combustion engines tho.

Perhaps pickenplan deserves it's own thread, Alexg.

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

Semantics. I want them OUT of the ground. I thought my meaning was obvious before, but I hope I have clarified now.

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My Political Blog (Most recent update Oct 3rd) - Which Flame Warrior are you?

And the reasons still apply today.

Why delay the inevitable only to secure more profit for the ubber rich?

If we start a transition now, it will untimately be smoother. If we keep playing the gas game, eventually it will come crashing down. And THAT will be much more destructive to our economy. We know where the future is headed, so why not start preparing now?

If you keep giving the crying brat candy, they'll never learn to deal with life and accept that you have eat your vegetables.

Como se dice, "No broccoli!" - lol

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"For time and the world do not stand still. Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth"
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
-JFK

Knight Errant of the Simian Order
Truth - Justice - Comedy

....

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts