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Old 09-06-2004, 11:18 PM
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Default The Culture Wars

With all the attention we aren't paying to our President's fascination with war and his incompetence with regard to money matters, I would like to see us spend more time not thinking about President Bush's vision of society. If anyone has read the book "Inherit the Wind" or seen one of the movies, you have already been introduced to Bush's model society: Hillsboro.

The society that Bush wants is one of all God, all the time. If Bush gets his way, the Ten Commandments will be hung everywhere, public school prayer will re-emerge, Darwin will be banished from the classroom, and more speech will be abridged as the FCC fines anything and everything that they consider "immoral."

To a great extent, we did it to ourselves. During moderate administrations we created fake abortion rights where no such rights existed, and we pretended that the First Amendment forbade all public displays of religion.

The sad fact is that the right to choose is based on a right that doesn't exist. It is pure judicial fiction. Instead of advocating for a right to choose law passed by Congress, society got the right through the courts (of course Bush and a Republican Congress could pass anti-abortion legislation if the right had been created legislatively, but that would be far more difficult than merely replacing two Supreme Court justices). If such a right were indeed guaranteed, we would be ok, but the fact is that while one Court can create the right, another court will be able to destroy the right. The fact that the right is based on judicial fiction makes the process that much easier. And, with another term, President Bush will be able to replace enough Supreme Court Justices to do just that.

Likewise, the Lemon decision (Lemon v. Kurtzman) created a framework that doesn't have a solid constitutional base. Whether we like it or not, the First Amendment only proscribes (1) Congress from (2) Establishing a Religion (like England did). As much as most of us disapprove Judge Moore and his mountain-size 10 Comandments sculpture, he is not Congress and the sculpture didn't establish a religion. A far right Court will overturn the Lemon decision and religion will be all around us. Of course, if we disapprove of people like Moore, we can oust them from office, but in the time they serve, they can make religion so ubiquitous, that it will be hard to tell where the church ends and public property begins.

It is almost ironic that in a time when the moderates in Iran are beginning to get a small foothold in society with an intention to "modernize" Iranian society, a far right nutcase like Bush is going to try to get back into the White House with the intention to "regress" American society. I firmly believe that as scary as it may seem, we saw the moderate George Bush in the first term (because he knew he would have to run for re-election). With no further election, he will be free to create the society that HE wants.

And with a Republican dominated Congress, the changes we see in society could be monumental.
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Old 09-07-2004, 04:55 AM
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Default Put it this way...

Since Christianity uses gentle persuasion rather than govt. forced control on people like the radicals have been trying to impose on Americans, I'd take Christianity anyday.

I think you need to read The Bible, the constitution, & then the communist manifesto before you start spouting that nonsense.
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Old 09-07-2004, 08:26 AM
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The society that Bush wants is one of all God, all the time. If Bush gets his way, the Ten Commandments will be hung everywhere, public school prayer will re-emerge, Darwin will be banished from the classroom, and more speech will be abridged as the FCC fines anything and everything that they consider "immoral."
You people need to relax. He's a President, not a King. it isnt within his power to do any of that....even if you assume he wants to.

The vast majority of Christians in America believe in Evolution. Creationists are the exception, not the rule.

Whats wrong with School Prayer? You complain about the FCC abridging free speech in one sentence, then support abdridging it in another. Which one is it? Is free speech only ok if it agrees with your own views?
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by GOPer";p=&quot View Post
I think you need to read The Bible, the constitution, & then the communist manifesto before you start spouting that nonsense.
Done. Done. And, done.

Time will tell whether it is nonsense.
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:51 AM
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You people need to relax. He's a President, not a King. it isnt within his power to do any of that....even if you assume he wants to.
Bull. With a republican senate, he will have all the ability he needs to get far far right judges confirmed. Those judges along with Bush and a Republican congress will wholly transform society.

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Whats wrong with School Prayer? You complain about the FCC abridging free speech in one sentence, then support abdridging it in another. Which one is it? Is free speech only ok if it agrees with your own views?
No. But there is a difference between finding a radio or tv program offensive and simply turning the dial and finding school prayer offensive and having to walk out of the classroom. The fact is that the two issues aren't even close.

I don't, though, have any problem with a "moment of silence" where those who wanted to pray could (to whatever God they chose) and those who didn't could simply do something else or nothing at all.
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:57 AM
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Default Bush

When has Bush done anything to try to put the Ten Commandments everywhere? And since when has Bush tried to stop the God of the Liberals, Darwin? And people still pray at school, just not next to the heathens, and that is just the way it is.

Ron
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ron5006";p=&quot View Post
When has Bush done anything to try to put the Ten Commandments everywhere? And since when has Bush tried to stop the God of the Liberals, Darwin? And people still pray at school, just not next to the heathens, and that is just the way it is.
Since when is Bush's God a different one that the God of the liberals? Liberals and Bush pray to the same God. The difference is that the liberals don't need to see religious symbols everywhere in order to practice their religion.
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Old 09-07-2004, 12:49 PM
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Bull. With a republican senate, he will have all the ability he needs to get far far right judges confirmed. Those judges along with Bush and a Republican congress will wholly transform society.
Note my emphasis above. Bush does not = Republican Senate. A Republican Sentate majority cannot be accomplished without the consent of a majority of Americans.

So my point is correct; Bush cannot accomplish any of that on his own. He needs the cooperation of Congress.
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:08 AM
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**quote**
Bull. With a republican senate, he will have all the ability he needs to get far far right judges confirmed. Those judges along with Bush and a Republican congress will wholly transform society.
**quote**

Kinda like liberal judges have been doing at every twist and turn. That is the problem with you liberals.. you don't understand that what is good for the goose is good for the gander....
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Old 09-09-2004, 08:51 AM
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Default sorry sinanju

As much as I would like to see judges confirmed based on enforcing law and the constitution instead of infusing their own political agenda, it won't happen. Republicans will need enough to override a filibuster and that won't happen. However I do think they will be able to get more confirmed than the last go around.
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