Stds are an epedemic in our youth, according to numerous studies and my daughter's nursing school instructors. We have determined that abortion, the tearing apart of a developing human being while n its mother's womb, is neccessary and should be legal, Divorce rates have skyrocketed far above the rates in the 50s and 60s before the so called "sexual liberation" movement. Teenage pregnancies are far far above numbers in the 50s and 60s also.

I am sure there are those who think positive results have occurred, but what are they? And do they outweigh the negatives? Just interested what the consensus is, so please don't throw flames.

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Well, Freedom for one.

Freedoms can always be abused, but does that mean we take them away?

We have Constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure, but that makes it easier for people to hide illegal activities. Do we get rid of that freedom to feel safer?

Actually teenage pregnancy and abortion rates peaked in the 80's and have been on a decline since then. And divorce rates seems an irrelevant social indicator of societal ills --unless you are basing it on Christianity, which judging by your abortion comment you are, but that book should rarely be referenced for anything moral considering the vast immorality contained therein; i.e. condoning sexual slavery, killing your own mother if she works on the sabbath, etc. etc. and etc.

I digress.

I think it is wonderful that divorce rates are high. If you aren't happy then why subject yourself to misery? I think it is a positive socialogical indicator.

Freedom is the big one. On the practical side, there's ensuring sexual compatibility before marriage.

The downside is if societal pressure leads someone to have sex before they're ready, or sex they don't want, or sex with someone they don't want to have sex with. Those are hardly world-ending consequences. And anyway, aren't conservatives the ones who always rail against the nanny state? Why should we infantilize people in this particular area?

High divorce rates are not in themselves a problem. Better to be able to escape an unhappy relationship than be stuck in one. And besides, the only way you can claim things like a "50% divorce rate" is if you count all marriages (including people on their third or fourth marriage) and all divorces (including those that take place after 50 years of marriage).

Factor out the serial divorcees, and most people who get married, stay married. And if someone gets divorced after 40 or 50 years, you can't say that they didn't make a go of it. So I'm not sure that says anything useful about the state of marriage or society.

IIRC, the average length of marriage at divorce is nine years. So it seems clear that people are taking marriage seriously.

Teenage pregnancy rates have been falling for years, as have STD rates. The only serious uptick has been in chlamydia, which is at least partly and possibly mostly due to the fact that it's being diagnosed more, not that it's occuring more. Chlamydia is the least serious of STDs, and easily cured with antibiotics.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/trends2006.htm

Gonorrhea rates are lower than they were in 1941. Syphillis rates are way down, too.

The government doesn't track herpes infections, so I don't have decent info on that.

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STDs were kept hush-hush in the old days. The sexual liberation could potentially lead to less of that by encouraging protection... but unfortuantely too many people aren't very motivated to use protection.
People were having "immoral" sex back in the '50s. They just kept quiet. There were STDs and there were abortions (which helped keep adultery hush-hush), but people did not talk about them. Siphilus used to be a big deal. AIDS did not exist yet, and thus could not spread no matter how many people had sex.

It's also important to note that "the good ol' days" only existed for middle classers. We always ignore working class and poor people from back then.
If middle classers didn't report STDs all the time, we assume they didn't have them...

Which brings up another point... We're better at detecting STDs now (and treating them).


Abortion was already legal. The difference is that now it is seen as part of a woman's right over her own body. Back in the day it was more about covering up a man's mistakes.

It's the price you pay for also allowing people to escape abusive marriages and for couples whose marriages collapse or were a total irredeemable mistake to get out rather than driving each other nuts and hurting their kids even more than a divorce.
We also end up with people who divorce rather than work things out. This actually has more to do with individualism than sex lib. People are not as willing to make sacrifices as they once were and have ridiculous romantic fantasies about what marriage is.
A lot could be avoided if people put off marriage... which is another effect of sexual liberation.

I'd like to see the actual rates broken down by demographics.

One positive is that women gained ownership of their own sexuality. Before men pretty much owned it. It's unfortunate that many young women who did not live through the struggles of the women's rights movement do not value their sexuality and give it away (men still have more leverage in current culture as well... but no longer entrenched in legislation).
Another positive is that people talk about sexual issues rather than sweeping them under the rug or trying to hide them. I don't believe for a second that teen pregnancies or disease would be all that significantly less common if '50s norms continued... We just would not hear about it. That was pretty much how the '50s worked. Lots of problems- just nobody talked about them!

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It has given a woman freedom over her body and life.

The big problem now is that we do not educate our children on the differences between a man and a woman. Men and woman think very differently, communicate very differently, and are very different.

Instead the feminists have pushed the idea that men and woman are the same. This is the reason for the high divorce rates, and other problems. Men think that women think like a man, communicates like man, have the needs of a man. Women think that men think like a woman and communicate like a woman and have the needs of a woman.

This ignorance leads to tremendous conflict in a marriage and in a family

Duh. Better sex.

Anyway, before I comment on your allegations, I'd like to see some real statistics.

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Of course they didn't actually teach that back then either. They taught gender roles (which are still dominant in our culture), which have basis in tradition rather than biology.
The broad-brush generalizing of male-female differences in education can do more harm than good. Some women are more cut out for "man jobs" than most men and some men are more cut out for "woman jobs" than most women. Same is true with incompetence.
Individuals should not have their options limited by generalization.

Now when it comes to the real biological stuff... dealing with how the sexes learn differently... I could see applying that. But of course that is mostly new information.

Really ideally we should have education catered to individuals while also getting the kids used to dealing with others of different types.
I'd err in favor of keeping options open.

I have never heard this claim from any feminist. They argue that most gender roles are purely creations of society and that many biological differences are irrelevant in the modern age... both accurate statements.
No one argues that the sexes are the "same".

That's crazy. The divorce rates are up because the restrictions have been removed. Much of this has to do with women's rights but has nothing to do with "sameness".

Huh? Most married couples get that their significant other thinks differently.
The problem is that people are generally self-centered and always self-biased and tend to figure everyone thinks like they do when making unilateral decisions. This does not only lead to trouble with the opposite sex, but with anyone from a different culture or different experiences.

You're blaming the wrong thing.
It's egoism and hyper-individualism. Up until the liberation, men had a monopoly on it.
Now everyone has it and it means one person does not sacrifice by default. That means couples actually have to talk about this stuff before getting married- as opposed to getting hitched on a romantic whim and just assuming you know where sacrifices are going to be made or thinking that everyone will always get what they want.
When both people want to be the breadwinner, that's going to be an issue... especially when kids come along or a move is in question. There has to be an agreement on whose job gets first priority... but it doesn't always have to be the man.

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"Man lives in the sunlit world of that which he believes to be reality. But unseen by most is an underworld, a place that is just as real... but not as brightly lit... A DARK SIDE!"
-opening from Tales From the Darkside

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Lesbians are almost the lowest group for STD's. Sexual liberation has openned us up in many ways. It has allowed people to more free to discuse and be open to views. When the Kinsey report came out especially the one on women the place went wild. Kinsey was trashed by everyone. Now his work is looked at as not so much.

It has allowed people to explore those forbidden areas. It has been good for all of us.

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