Well, what do you consider stability for Iraq? Its not going to be peaches and candycanes sending more troops into a war zone, but there is no doubt that it has reduced fighting in Baghdad

I'm not arguing the theory of a massive influx of troops quelling violence (after causing a great deal of it themselves, which is what they're very good at doing, when needed).

I'm arguing the theory that the "Surge" has, in fact, WORKED -- when it has NOT lived up to the goals the CREATOR of the Surge set out for it when he launched it.

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"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."

--President-elect Barack Obama
November 5, 2008

I think you have a legitimate point, but now we need to achieve those political goals. Then if we do that we can say the surge was a success. But as of right now, we need to say that the surge has given us an opportunity for success. Now we need to handle the next steps carefully and competently, something which has been a weakness of our current administration.

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R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!

Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?


And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson

You can't win the hearts and minds, with total chaos being
the norm, you must reduce the violence before you can begin
to gain the hearts and minds, when this is achieved, those
hearts and minds will be willing to rebuild, and take control
for themselves.

Why do you need someone to explain such an idea?
We also know that the violence has reduced in levels
and that it was not that long ago that we all realized
this fact, so now the next step would be to maintain
the violence low as possible and give the Iraq's time
to rebuild and take control.

You can't say the surge is not working when you have not
given the Iraqi's time to take advantage of the reduction
of violence, which the surge created.

Why be dishonest and state that the surge did not work?

You are the only person who has to live with your own
dishonesty. and if your agenda corrupts your honesty
then so be it.

...

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The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Wasn't the "surge" meant to give our Iraqi puppet gov. enough breathing room to get our "benchmarks" pushed through their legislative body?

What does "stability" mean? Iraq is "stable" enough for me, I'm sitting in Dallas.

And what does it matter if one component of an overall faulty design works? Does a successful "surge" somehow negate that we invaded a country that had not attacked us by believing and telling ourselves lies.

__________________
"I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy."
-Sen. John McCain 09/22/2008

Two words: Election Year

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Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
-Thomas Jefferson

Agenda? I have no agenda when it comes to this war!!! But you, the person with an avatar that says "liberals the freedom killers," may have an agenda. I don't agree with democrats or republicans on this issue! Repubs lie to themselves and say "this could not be going any better", and nothing could be more damaging to our efforts. What we need to do is say "things could be going a lot better, how can we make that happen?" But democrats just say get out, which is no better. Taking an honest look at Iraq is important to success, because what we are doing now will not lead to success. But I guess your agenda will never let you see that.

__________________
R.I.P. Molly, I miss you every day!!

Im a Tarte, what! you want some of this?


And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. Thomas Jefferson

I completly agree.

Which ones have said this?

__________________
Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
-Thomas Jefferson

Personally, I don't think they're our puppet so much anymore as Iran's -- as I'm sure we'll learn if McCain gets elected...

..but it apparently means, "We stay for 100 years" to our neocon pals.

__________________
"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."

--President-elect Barack Obama
November 5, 2008