So are you trying to say that the "surge" was a success for Iran?

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"I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy."
-Sen. John McCain 09/22/2008

I think we'll find out at some point. I think one of the reasons McCain wants to stay is that he envisions us having a war with Iran, and it will be a lot harder for Iraq to take their side (which they certainly will do) if we have troops on the ground as occupiers in place.

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"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."

--President-elect Barack Obama
November 5, 2008

I think the only winner in our war in Iraq has been Iran.

As to John McSame, the AP is reporting that he found another benefit of "the surge".
"My friends, just look at my hair and see all the proof you need that the Surge HAS worked. The strands are longer, stronger and more luxurious than ever before, proving the Surge has worked!"

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"I think the deregulation was probably helpful to the growth of our economy."
-Sen. John McCain 09/22/2008

As stated in a different thread, I'll explain why you hear it so much.

To those still hurt behind the wound that is this administration, (that they support) the drop in violence is almost like ice to said wounds. They're focusing on one category of a much larger spectrum, simply because the larger spectrum does not come out in their favor. When you consider economy, military availability, foreign relations, terrorism on a global scale... the drop in violence in one region is all they can cling to in order to say "we were right".

It's like trying to kill a bug in the house (al qaeda) by burning the house down (U.S. economy, foreign relations, military availability, etc.) ...and proclaiming to the world "But we got the bug, didn't we? It was a success!" Their focus is on one problem, completely ignoring all the others. That's not a responsible strategy...

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Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

from the surveys of the iraqi people, they both want us to protect them and they want us to be gone
they recognize that our soldiers have protected them and yet they are willing to allow harm to come to our military
the iraqi government wants us there to keep them safe but wants us gone so that our presence is not a reminder that it is a propped up regime

"success", like the answers above, cannot be assigned an absolute "yes" or "no" response. while progress is being made, it appears limited. so limited that our government has revised the way in which it tracks performance of the 18 benchmark objectives. previously the assigned values were "met" "unmet" or "partial" and at the end of 2007 only 3 of the benchmarks were "met". that changed, when the assessment was completed six months later. now 15 of the 18 benchmarks are given an official "satisfactory" response. this is nothing but spin, inflicted upon the benchmark grades, as "satisfactory" is certainly not the same as "met". for instance, committing iraqi funds to infrastructure improvements was accomplished in varying rates from 66% to 50% to 33% depending on the ministry reviewed. those are far from "passing" grades, yet this benchmark measure was found "satisfactory". read for yourself the recent assessment and you will likely share my skepticism about what limited degree accomplishments are actually being made:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4000162/Fi...ort-9-May-2008

as has been written by others, it is difficult to seperate the positive outcome directly resulting from the surge from that which would have resulted otherwise from both the awakening and the standing down of the militia. however, it would seem a substantial degree of the progress should reasonably be attributed to the greater number of combat forces brought to bear on the insurgents and aq

on balance, it would appear Obama's proposal to begin bringing our troops home at a steady pace, transitioning responsibility for the security of the iraqi nation to the iraqis, appears to be a sound approach. it is one that would appear to respond to the iraqi concerns as well as America's intent. the answer to your question, whether the surge has helped America achieve its objectives in iraq, would need to be "yes", to some degree. and yes, we also need to remove ourselves from the region to not be viewed as an occupational army. let the iraqis now take care of iraq. the sooner, the better - for both nations

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Quote:

"I like to watch the news, because I don't like people very much and when you watch the news ... if you ever had an idea that people were really terrible, you could watch the news and know that you're right."

Frank Zappa

To those still hurt behind the wound that is this administration, (that they support)
PURE BDS RANT, Who is they?
the drop in violence is almost like ice to said wounds.
Applying ice to wounds reduce inflamation and encourages healing
They're focusing on one category of a much larger spectrum
Every problem solved begins one step at a time
, simply because the larger spectrum does not come out in their favor
simply, you can't can't eat an entire pie in one bite
. When you consider economy, military availability, foreign relations, terrorism on a global scale... the drop in violence in one region is all they can cling to in order to say "we were right

This coming from some folks who said it would never work.and that Iraq was in civil war let them kill themselves out. America has always represented freedom to the world.

Is it "freedom" if it's at the point of a gun?

Certainly worked for gaining our freedom from england, and France from Germany, Guns certainly helped restoring stability in Bosnia, very few dictators are going to release power without them.

I guess you, judging by your reaction.

Indeed. You'll probably need to heal following support for this administration

It doesn't take 5 years to make one step.

but you can hurt your countrys status in one shifty conflict.

Yes! Freedom to the world! We'll go into a recession so that you can be free! Save it for someone else. Moral responsibility to other nations and humanitarian efforts went out the window when we ignored regions liek Darfur. You're only proving my point. I talked about the big picture behind this war, and you said "this coming from some folks who said it would never work". Your focus is still on the surge... conveniently ignoring the chaos that has stemmed from lengthy efforts in a region that didn't even attack us. Bravo.

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Sarcasm is just another free service I offer.

Yes! Freedom to the world! We'll go into a recession so that you can be free! Save it for someone else. Moral responsibility to other nations and humanitarian efforts went out the window when we ignored regions liek Darfur.


So where was this outrage when we sent soldiers to Bosnia that are still there. Doesn't it concern you that more soldier would be killed if we sent them to Darfur? Many feel that freedom of a person to live their life is everyones dream. Preserving it means many times you must fight!