Social Parasites - Capitalism - Page 19

perdidochas · #**181** (**permalink**) 08-06-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skinny.

It always seems that the people who support Capitalism, are the ones in a position to benifit from others hard work.

And those opposed to it are the ones who don't have the skills or knowledge to put themselves into such a position.

Also, most capitalists I know work (*)(*)(*)(*)ed hard, especially those that run small businesses that benefit from both their own and other's hard work. A person who provides capital (i.e. tools and materials) and makes the sale deserves to make money.

perdidochas · #**182** (**permalink**) 08-06-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Peabody

Do you have an example of your true socialist country?

IMHO, they can't exist. Socialism (or communism) doesn't work at a size past around 200 people. Once you get to a point where all people in the community don't know everybody else well, true socialism collapses. That said, few societies (if any) can exist without some socialist aspects.

Rusticus · #**183** (**permalink**) 08-06-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justabubba

it may be premature to be waving victory flag on behalf of capitalism ... at least to the extent you believe it has displaced socialism

look at the evolution of our society and our government. we have made a transition from a time when government was primarily a libertarian undertaking. aside from the role of the military, the judiciary, the congress and the executive, and enforcement of civil and commercial laws, there were seldom other circumstances in which one would have cause to interact with government. with the development of the industrial age and the involvement of unions, changes were made relative to employment law, work site conditions, inspection of meats and other goods on the public's behalf. extensive roadways were added to our system of waterways, causing another need for government intervention, just as occurred when telecommunitions and air transportation were developed necessitating administration of the airways. and when the depression created a need for a massive safety net for families to survive, public works were identified which would not just add to the nation's infrastructure but to provide employment opportunities for the many who needed jobs. federal oversight of the financial system was launched to pre-empt future economic meltdowns. social security was introduced to allow those no longer able to work to have a sustaining income. an expectation of public school attendance was implemented to educate our citizenry to attain a level of literacy. the great society was advanced, intended to eradicate racial injustice and poverty, which added medicare and medicaid to the array of government managed programs intended to assist the needs of our society. also added were food stamps for the undernourished and housing subsidies for those who could not provide shelter for their own families. abuses of the environment caused the establishment of EPA. the need for improved health conditions initiated the creation of NIH.
i think it is safe to say we will soon recognize that it is also in our nation's interest to assure some baseline of medical care for all.
given all of these social causes which have been subsumed under the government's umbrella, and those we see on the horizon to be added, it appears to me that socialism, more than capitalism, which is winning if you insist that we rank them. not just here, but look at communist china.
it is the melding of capitalism to serve the needs of the individual coupled with society's inclination to aid the least among us which appears to be our future. it does not have to be this or that ... it can be both ... but only if we allow ourselves to see the reason of it

I agree with you completely. I haven't really taken the time to express my in-depth opinion on economic systems. I wouldn't go into detail with Qwaile45 because clearly, I would be wastiing my time.

I do not believe any one system has all the tools and all the answers to our economic needs. Not only that but I think that different developmental stages of third world countries call for economic systems that particularly address the requirements of those developmental stages.

I believe that the economic system in the US is totally out of balance. The corporations have far too much power, and labor has far too little.

Reagon destroyed the power of labor unions by refusing to enforce laws that protected them. The main thing that labor unions do for all of us, union workers or not, is see that there is a more equitable distribution of wealth. Wages have been stagnant for a long time while American productivity and quality has grown immensely. All of that money has gone to the upper 1%. Labor has not gotten its fair share and neither have the other once middle class parts of society.

When neoliberal capitalists talk about the invisible hand of the marketplace, they are talking to that hand waving goodbye as the neoliberals enforce pure capitalism. It is the hand of the food inspectors, the environmental protectors, all the public school educators, all the regulators, all those who protect us from the excesses of capitalism waving goodbye. It is also the goodbye wave of any possibliity of an egalitarian society.

allmywebsite1 · #**184** (**permalink**) 08-06-2008, 11:48 PM

The democratic challenge, which becomes ever more complex as the scale of human interactions increases, is to mimic the governance system of the small hominid troop. We need a state that rewards us for cooperating and punishes us for cheating and stealing. At the same time we must ensure that the state is also treated like a member of the hominid clan and punished when it acts against the common good. Human welfare, just as it was a million years ago, is guaranteed only by mutual scrutiny and regulation.

Lawyr

Rebellion · #**185** (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justabubba

but, not surprisingly, you have missed the point - again.

social security was legislated as the law of the land and the entitlement to social security benefits results for all who meet the criteria of the established law
housing subsidies now become the entitlement to those who meet the legislated criteria to obtain them
food stamps are nowhere to be found authorized by the founding fathers but subsequent legislation has provided an entitlement to those who qualify to receive them
and similarly, health benefits can become the entitlement of our citizens once the congress legislates to provide it

that the founding fathers did not affix their collective seal of approval on health coverage does not mean the government cannot authorize that benefit for its citizens

I missed the point because you went completely off topic. Off course the FF don't have to approve every program. I never said any such thing. The quote of mine you responded to was in response to someone who called health care a civil right. I said it was not a civil right and asked where in the constitution it said as much. Obviously the legislature can establish programs, it doesn't make them civil rights.

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